damn why are the hi-pointfirearms so cheap?

 

because they are built cheap! Not saying they dont perform well for alot of people, but they're ugly, bulky, and have alot of cheap plastic parts.....they look like they belong in a robocop movie!

 

I would recomment a taurus 24/7 pro 40 cal. It has the best grip of any hand gun out there, alot of nice features and it comes with a key to lock the pistol itself if u got kids around.

45's jam, and your not gonna be able to hit anyone with it if there more than 12 ft away from u. anyone that say diferrent is full of **** and has no experience with moving targets. Furthermore if u do hit them with a .45, u might kill them and u dont want to have to deal with that **** even if ur right.

The 9mm caliber is too small, and its not going to stop someone coming at you unless you hit em good.

The .40 is the best cal hands down, and its what the feds use, u get excellent stopping power, much less kick than a .45 , and the magazines have descent capacity.

PS: whichever firearm u decide on, be sure to get all black / bluesteel. dont be a dumb *** and get any shiny ****.

 

Sig Sauer p229 .40 cal.

 

I'm not sure where you got that info, but a .40 wouldnt be my choice in any gun!

LEGALLY you cant shoot anyone beyond 21 feet/7 yards and have it be considered self defense.....at 21 feet, where I've shot a couple THOUSAND rounds with my Taurus PT145SS .45 handgun I can hit a head shot or innermost center mass with every shot! I've "finished off" running game when I didnt want to shoot another expensive rifle round and never had a problem with my .45 jamming or hitting its target. If a .45 is jamming something is wrong! My .45 eats every single Remington Hollow point I've fed it out of the 100 round boxes walmart sells. If I buy cheap Winchester White box ammo, dont clean my gun, or use thicker gun oil, I know my gun may not work.......but its the exact same situation with my buddy's Glock 17 9mm, and my cousin's Beretta .40 cal!!!!

Personally, I wouldnt use ANY pistol caliber (in a pistol or carbine type gun) to shoot beyond 20-30 yards for anything! 12 ga., .223, and 7.62 come into play at that point. ANY handgun round is FAR less effective beyond that range.

Ask military men.....people who are alot more likely to shoot someone than the "feds". They'll tell you they would prefer a 1911 over the Beretta P92 in current issue to many of them. The 1911 .45 is THE long issued secondary weapon of the military and our guys over there constantly report they have to completely empty they're 9mm's into insurgents before they fall...the knockdown power just isnt there. A quality .45 ACP round is the best pistol round out, nothing is as effective as "throwing and ash-try" at your target.

Newer .45's have better capacities now as well. My Taurus SUB-COMPACT has a 10 round clip with one in the chamber.....thats 11 .45 rounds! My buddies Springfield XD.45 holds even more than that.

As for 9mm......it would take a well placed shot due to a lack of knock down power, but does make up for it with a higher capacity. In a tense situation there are certain things that work against you......a "good" trigger reworked like in many Glock's isnt always a good thing since you can easily misfire and hit someone you dont want to.....another thing is capacity, many times people in self defense situation MISS their first shot or shots. A 1911 with a 7 round mag will run out fast, but a hit is devastating! A 9mm may not be as devastating when it hits, but your likelihood of hitting your target improves with higher capacity. For home defense, a 9mm wouldnt be my choice, and a .45 wouldnt always be mine unless its close and I need it.

As for .40, alot of the problems have been resolved with the cases blowing out in the gun.....it was due to most guns having un-supported feed ramps and the .40 casing was a stretched 9mm casing...the combo of the two blew out the back bottom edge of the casing. Many people consider a .40 a good compromise of increased capacity versus a .45, and increased knock-down power compared to a 9mm. IMO, its the cartridge thats ok in all areas, but not great in any!

NOW....when dealing with home defense, self defense, conceal and carry,......and so on.....SHOOT TO KILL!!!!!!!
#1 You NEVER point a gun at anything you dont intend to kill....EVER!
#2 When you shoot someone who's broken into your home or is attempting to mug you or whatever....if you wound them you have two stories and if they are dishonest enough to break the law to do what they were doing what makes you think they'll fess up to what they were doing and not lie about it in order to get off scot-free and come back to SUE YOU for bodily damages???
#3 A wounded aggressor is still capable is causing you/your wife, kids,.... bodily harm.

Now you cant shoot someone center mass in the stomach who's broken into your home, have them drop, then shoot them again......thats an execution! BUT, when (more likely IF) that situation happens, you empty your clip into the person without stopping, then reload and reassess the situation...."I didnt stop shooting until I felt the threat was neutralized and I defended yourself to the best of my ability because I FEARED FOR MY LIFE!"

Wound someone who's attempting to rob you or something like that and you wont go to jail.....but in civil court that person's lawyer will have everything you own given to the person you shot!

Lastly.....if you dont want to use deadly force in one of those situations....BUY A SHINY GUN with a laser/light.....preferably a REALLY SHINY PUMP 12 gauge! Nothing is more of a deterrent to to someone breaking into a house than having they're senses tell them to get out of the situation! The SOUND of a pump 12ga is supposedly the scariest thing a home invader can hear. A dark black, super stealth handgun in a dark house would INCREASE your likelihood of having to actually pull the trigger to stop someone in comparison of a chromed mossberg 500 12 gauge you just racked the pump on!

Dont mean to knock in on you or anything......but when it comes to guns I'm prolly one of the bigger "gun nuts" on here, I've shot em all, own many guns including the "evil" guns some liberal ********* dont want me to have, and I shoot my guns from my gun stash almost every other day and go thru thousands of rounds every year. I could tell you what brands most people are going to be happier with, and ups and downs of almost any gun out. I'm not some newb on here telling you which handbrake you need is what I'm saying!

As for self-defense....I've had martial arts training, self defense training, and also have my CCW (conceal carry weapons permit), and I carry my CCW guns DAILY!
I've put my .45 to two people's foreheads in 2 attempted car jackings where I used to go to school....my .45 isnt all black and stealthy and the fact it was seen and my intent on not being a victim was IMMEDIATELY understood, I didnt have to take a life!

 

well thats a rather long post eazenuts, but from reading it a few things are clear. 1. you're white, so your outlook on the legal system is very skewed & you have obviously never found yourself facing charges. 2. you've never actually had to shoot at someone or have fire returned in your direction. 3. you're way too much into guns!

Now from everything you said, you basically reinforced my two main points. First you made referrence to the lack of stopping power from the 9mm, so basically that argument is over. So the only debate now is between the .45 and the .40 . You just stated somewhere in all that stuff you wrote that you wont use a .45 unless you were really close. Which is what i was basically trying to say. The fact that you have had such extensive use of firearms and now feel so competent in your abilities that you claim you can make a head shot with the .45 all the time doesnt mean that goes the same for the average person who doesnt have your years of experience. As for jamming, you must be the luckiest man on earth to never have a .45 jam on you. but knowing as much as you know it would seem that thats something you should be aware of and it is a risk. Not because you've been lucky means its not a known problem. If ur willing to bet ur life on the reliability of ur .45 im not!

Also the .45 is standard issue to the military because of the intended targets. You dont see people running around the cities in military gear or body armor, so you really dont need a .45! In addition, people in the military get adequate training to become competent with a .45 so i dont see how you would decide that thats an appropriate defense weapon for civilians.

1911's should not even be a part of this discussion because thats a different class of weapon, and there all gonna run some good $$$.

The .40 caliber is the best suited firearm for someone looking for a good defense weapon, and thats the bottom line. I dont see why there has to be an argument about something thats obvious. I think u just wanted to share your knowledge! :-)

and as for you wanting your shiny gun, i guess its clear that your one of those people that tries to do things by the book, but life doesnt happen by the book, and not everyone has a ccw permit like u do buddy! so black will do just fine!

 

i want a ingram mac11, but i cant have that **** out here in cali.

all this and still no advice on which 9mm to get?

rofl at the first paragraph.


and +1 to life not happening by the book.

 

Shotta, your an idiot.

I like the .40, its one of my favorite rounds. But you might want to read a bit more and then actually fire it before telling people about it, considering its a 9 mil frame shooting a 40 cal bullet. If your not getting what I'm saying its got a good deal of kick.

And shooting without the intention of killing? Thats funny cause your preaching about getting shot at. Theres this thing, where someone can still shoot you if they're not dead! Another thing, we dont use .45's, we use 9's so I dont know what all that fuss is about. Even so, where are you getting your info about .45's jamming?

My final point, you said you wont stop anyone with a 9mm unless you 'hit em good.' Your a ******* RETARD if your carrying, and cant 'hit em good.' If your the kind of retard that cant place a shot properly and are endangering others, I hope you get smoked.

 

you know what, i notice no matter what you say someone out there is always going to have some type of slick comeback. so if u wanna get a 9mm, go right ahead, if u want a .45 then fine thats ur choice.
just google .45 jamming and then maybe im not so crazy after all. but whatever man, you "gun experts" who know it all can talk all u want to make urselfs feel special or whatever it is. I'll stick with the .40

 

1. White and Proud! (Not a racist thing, if you black, yellow, pink, gay, whatever you get to proud to right? <---Just in case someone wants to drop the racist **** in here). My outlook on the legal system is simple, ONE story is always better than TWO!

2. I've had a gun in my face, I've been stabbed, been cut, and made it out of those situations......so I'm not some suburb anti-goverment tinfoil-hat wearing nut like you think. The black kid who pulled a knife on me and stabbed me in the side spent 3 weeks in ICU and lost his sight in one eye.....no charges, because he never let go of his knife when I was using my fist to collapse his eye-sockets!

3. Theres no such thing as being too much into guns unless I have intent to go on some rampage. All of my guns but two are for recreation and hunting, my Kel-Tec .380 and .45 are for CCW and self defense.

As for .45's jamming.....the .45's that jam tend to have feed ramps that need to be polished and/or there is an issue with the magazine. I've seen as many .40's jam as .45's.....my particular .45 has never jammed on me and I've put ALOTTA rounds thru it, it would be easier to round to the nearest 500 round increment! BUT, thats why I know what I can do with the gun, or any gun for that matter.
Which brings me to another point.....if you are going to BET YOUR LIFE on anything including a gun, your *** better be at the range practicing with it.

As Pimpus said...."they" arent issued .45's, but as of 2007 when my cousin came back from Iraq, officers were still issued 1911's, and he told me he would have preferred it over the Beretta 92 9mm he was issued. As to what you said about adequate training ad the .45......how can you bet your life on a gun without getting adequate time with the weapon????
In the right hands, a 9mm, .380, .38, 357, .40, .45, or .22 can be an appropriate defense weapon.......but I didnt SAY the .45 was the only appropriate defense weapon for civilians.....in a CCW case where I have heavy enough clothes to conceal my .45, I carry it, when I'm wearing something lighter weight like the summer months, I carry a .380! BUT, in my mind the most effective HOME defense weapon is a PUMP shotgun for the reasons I stated before!

Rock Island and another company make Mil-Spec 1911's in the range of $350-450.....cheaper than a Glock, Springfield XD, or my Taurus....not every 1911 is a $2000 Kimber Custom!


Heres the problem.....the .40 is "ok" at best, and for some is a nice compromise for someone who wants a little bit bigger round than a 9mm, but less recoil and slightly higher capacity than a .45......most of these people who think its "obvious" got their info from a gun shop employee trying to move a Glock .40 thats been sitting on the shelf too long.

I didnt say I want a shiny gun......my AR, AK, and 75% of my other guns are all matte black. The point I'm pointing out is that sometimes you can deter someone by affecting their senses. Me personally, I would rather blow someone away and not take the chance they didnt get the clue when they heard my shotgun chamber.


As for my recommendation on what 9mm to get......I would recommend rethinking a 9mm and decide what PURPOSE the gun will have.

If you are interested in home defense...12 ga. SHOTGUN....period! Anyone's wife or child can be taught in 20 minutes how to work a MossBerg 500 shotgun in case you arent home, you can load it with different consecutive rounds of bird shot, buck shot, and slugs and when those are 2-3/4" shells your wife or any kids over 9-10 years old could handle the recoil from the hip. The chances of hitting your target with a basketball sized shot pattern greatly increases over firing 15 consecutive rounds from a 9mm as well.

If your state allows it and you are going to keep a gun in your car.....I recommend the biggest gun you can buy.....maybe not the biggest caliber, a .45 ACP works great, but the biggest frame and most intimidating looking gun you can afford. Its not a matter of concealing the gun in your car, but for those who may want to avoid taking a life in every way possible a large framed gun gets the point acrossed may times before the trigger would need to be pulled.

If you are interested in conceal and carry.....get a gun thats reliable for you, whether .22, .32, .380, 9mm, .40, .45...always use the same ammo to practice as what you would carry. Make sure you can sufficiently conceal your firearm.....you dont need a slick pick-pocket nabbing your gun!

If your state doesnt allow CCW permits, DONT walk around with a gun.....you're automatically guilty for simply carrying it. I understand neighborhoods can be dangerous....avoid em! I dont go thru certain areas because I know if a white guy like me drives thru those areas I'll be lucky to only be robbed and beaten! Gotta love the hate "for the man" carried by many "urbanites".

Lastly......if you just HAVE to have a 9mm, cause its kewl to you or somin.......Springfield makes excellent guns, Taurus is pretty good, many people like Glocks (I wouldnt mind having one either) and if you get trained on how to use, tear down, and clean your gun right, all of the major brands will work great for you. Keep in mind the barrel length and accuracy v. concealability.....the longer the barrel the better the accuracy typically is, but its more difficult to conceal and vice versa.

Alpha.....I love my Mac-11.....its a fun gun to "play" with and plink around with....but its a novelty. I wouldnt sweat not being able to own one out there. If I were you I would get a pre-ban AR lower and build something from it if they will let you. If you're wanting a 9mm with high-cap. pick up a Glock 17 and a couple 30 round clips for it (I know 30 round clips and KomiFornia, but I know many people out there get em all the time!)......you basically would have the same barrel length as my Mac-11, just in a more reliable gun.

Life doesnt happen by the book.....thats why you dont practice by the book. At the range getting used to your gun you should be practicing turning your body to decrease your profile, and drawing your gun and emptying your clip....the "book" situation may or may not occur, but you'll be ready regardless.

 

A .45 jamming has almost nothing to do with the round. It's different for every gun. Some guns jam, some don't. The only advantages I see that .40 has over .45 is higher capacity and easier concealment.

 

+1 to eazenutz...my dad has a mossberg 500 12 guage (not the chrome one though, sounds pimp), the sound that its pump action makes would scare me shitless if i was a burgular. i remember shooting it for the first time when i was about 8 or 9 years old, simply because he wanted to make sure i could handle its recoil if any emergencey happened and i had to use it.

 

lol....my mossberg isnt chromed...its an all black mossberg 500 12 ga....has an magazine extension to hold 8 rounds total and a top folding stock to go from pistol grip to normal.

The chromed comment was to say how it could be an effective deterant for someone breaking in your home since they will be able to see a chrome gun faster.....would get the point acrossed is all. I wouldnt waste the money to chrome a Mossberg, just like I think its rediculous to chrome or plate an AK.

 

bird shot in a 12 gauge is the best choice in home protection in my opinion.

 

I've got bird shot in my sawed off next to the bed. But I think I wanna but buck in it.

 

sorry its actually the mossberg 590 with the pistol grip...

 

bird shot is a smart first round...especially if you haven't put a ton of rounds thru the gun and feel like your would be accurate with that first shot.

The scary thing is this...most people MISS the first shot in a highly tense situation.....cops typically only hit 1/3 of their shots in shoot outs according to my CCW instructor (retired KCPD), granted they typically shoot twice a year, once at 6 months to practice, and again at one year to re-qualify.

If you DO hit with bird shot first, its may not knock down or kill a biped, but its excruciatingly painful and stuns enough to rack the pump for the next round which would be buckshot or a slug.

My Mossberg is loaded with alternating buckshot and 1oz. rifled slugs....the ideal is I can hit a 3' wide area at 30-50 feet with the buckshot, and can hit center mass with a slug at that distance....the combo of the two back to back would level anyone and the slugs will tear right thru car doors in case they decide to take cover.

I get to go back to the ghetto to finish school since we have a "community outreach" clinic in a less than preferred area.....so I will likely put my Mac11 in my truck as a "truck gun" and have my .45 on me for my CCW when walking to and from the truck. So even though a 9mm is underpowered...with 32 rounds in a clip and 1 in the chamber...my Mac11 should work great in the vehicle. lol

 

this is so funny! lol exactly what i was talkn about why i said i knew you were white. It wasnt at all about being racist, its just that its so painfully obvious by the way you see the world. well eazenuts its kinda hard to not go tru the bad neigborhoods when thats where you live! lofl.

you know the next response that always comes.... well why dont you move! which is just as funny.. as if everyone born into a certain social status could just say yeah, lemme go get a house out in the subburbs! the reality is that so much people are just doing all they could do just to get by in there current situation, that moving out of the "ghetto" as you call it is always going to be just a dream.

 

Why do you have to live there? I've moved from a small town, no suburb...to KC, and now back to that same small town. The only holding you there is you, your family, and your friends. If they want to stay in the ghetto so be it, but what says you have to?

well, believe it or not......they have low income, government housing, and government subsidized housing available in almost every small town, including the small town 20 minutes outside of KC where I live.....and that housing is to help those who dont make a lot of money, and to help people who are in college, getting back on their feet,........ for the record...I cant afford a house in the suburbs either, I grew up in a 2 bedroom house with one UHF/VHF TV with ***** on the front, and a wood stove to keep us warm in the winter. Now we live in a 4 bedroom house with 2 LCD TV's and 1 big Plasma TV, all stainless steel appliances, and multiple vehicles.....HOW? Because my parents quit "dreaming" and worked their asses off. My father worked his *** off loading boxes for a shipping company until he got to move up into lower management, to middle management, to where he is now.....and dont drop the "he's white" bullshit either...his boss, his assistant manager, and two other people at the same level as him are BLACK or Latino....guess noone told them about the whole social status thing???

how bout breaking a stereotype and moving away from the ghetto and trying to live in a better place where your kids wont be exposed to gangs, as many drugs,.......dont wear baggy jeans saggin below your ***, wear t-shirts that arent like dresses for fat women......dress respectable, speak english (not ebonics), and there is no job you CANT get as long as you have a highschool education! Why not go for a college degree? Student loans and grants for minorities are 10x more abundant than for a "privileged" lower-middle classed white guy like me....find an excuse there!

.....the only racism I knew growing up was from my grandpa in Independence, an area thats half high income and half low income with very little between. In middle and high school we hung out with some of the black kids in their parents low income housing and trailers.....their parents moved from "urban" areas and made sure their kids didnt glorify the bullshit gangster rap culture and got an education. My friends are now teachers, coaches, nurses,.....nothing stopped their parents from breaking the stereotype!

So dont bitch when you live in a crime ridden area and CHOOSE to stay there.....news flash, the white man doesnt have his foot on your neck, he moved away from the neighborhood you live in and shakes his head when the news comes on about another shooting or corrupt politics in the are and says "I remember when......" about your neighborhood.

 

eazenuts ur an arrogant ***, and i hope u humble urself in this life b4 someone else does it for u. I was going to respond to that crock of **** u just posted but its just not even worth the time. appreciate your fortunes in life and the fact that you even have 2 parents and a family structure that could have been there for you to provide the framework for you to develop. You have no idea what its like.. so just stop making urself look like the arrogant ***** that you are, and don't speak about things you cant even grasp. fukin *******!