Home Protection
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 964
From: Genova, Italy
Re: Home Protection
I just wanted to quote something that could be
much clearer than the bunch of words i've written:
it's from Noah Webster, former Federalist, during the Philadelphia Convention in 1787:
"A [Another] source of power in government is a military force. But this, to be efficient, must be superior to any force that exists among the people, or which they can command; for otherwise this force would be annihilated, on the first exercise of acts of oppression. Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States"
At that time, nor Apache AH64Ds or F22s existed, tough..
much clearer than the bunch of words i've written:
it's from Noah Webster, former Federalist, during the Philadelphia Convention in 1787:
"A [Another] source of power in government is a military force. But this, to be efficient, must be superior to any force that exists among the people, or which they can command; for otherwise this force would be annihilated, on the first exercise of acts of oppression. Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States"
At that time, nor Apache AH64Ds or F22s existed, tough..
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,259
From: N/A
Re: Home Protection
Farley, as you know i'm not American. and still I can see the point,
and try to explain to ya.
-- and please, if i do ANY mistake, please anyone correct me --
there are basically TWO reasons for the man of the street to have the right to possess an automatic or whatever gun:
1) the RIGHT TO FREEDOM. in its widest meaning.
there's just no plain reason for anyone with a clean record
NOT to own a machine gun. for being it a toy, a collectible, an hobby,
just like a blinged-out Busa, or a V8 supercharger, or a huge house.
Unless there's a main, striking and deadly reason, why put limits to people?
If we'd have to put limits to whatever you can own,
then why don't we outlaw big, polluting engines? they're surely more of a harm to people. And are fast.
Or we can either ban huge houses: they're more expensive to run on heating, thus more pollution:
Raceways and the racing world in itself?
oh come on, it's noisy, redneck, polluting, let's get modern: let's ban the motor racing world...
Later, people will be accustomed enough
not to bother if anything else gets banned...
Outlaws won't surely bother what's lawful or not, while carjacking you.
2) THE AMERICAN CONSTITUTION:
Farley, when your Constitution was signed in 1787,
it sure was a very different world compared to now.
But not as many people tells you.
There are still political fights, wars, greed, lust and so on.
Hence you have to look at the REASON for the Constitution
to have been written that way:
the United States were coming from an War from Indipendence,
a war in wich common people fought against a ruling, oppressive government.
A Civil War, indeed...
You remember what the Second Amendment said?
Okay, you have to understand WHY it said so.
Not for fear - not only, not MAINLY - of an alien nation attacking,
but to prevent the Nation and its population from an oppressive government.
"The most important influence from the European continent was from Montesquieu, who emphasized the need to have balanced forces pushing against each other to prevent tyranny."
The US were coming right from the tyrannic goverment of the UK,
and the Fathers wanted to point this out:
No matter how many years, decades, or centuries
the US can become old:
There may always come a point
in wich a ruling government is no longer beared from its own citizens:
And we have the right to be able to remove that government from ruling.
It may be standing up as a democracy, look as a democracy,
but since he took all our rights with us just standing and watching
we couldn't help whatever decision that government takes,
since we're helpless.
You Americans quite know what i'm talking about:
the Homeland Security act and the Patriot act ( or whatever it's called )
is - to my eyes - a subtle way to take most of your rights away ( privacy, mostly ),
that's the way it goes: "it'll be for your own good"...
but leaves you hopeless and disarmed.
and try to explain to ya.
-- and please, if i do ANY mistake, please anyone correct me --
there are basically TWO reasons for the man of the street to have the right to possess an automatic or whatever gun:
1) the RIGHT TO FREEDOM. in its widest meaning.
there's just no plain reason for anyone with a clean record
NOT to own a machine gun. for being it a toy, a collectible, an hobby,
just like a blinged-out Busa, or a V8 supercharger, or a huge house.
Unless there's a main, striking and deadly reason, why put limits to people?
If we'd have to put limits to whatever you can own,
then why don't we outlaw big, polluting engines? they're surely more of a harm to people. And are fast.
Or we can either ban huge houses: they're more expensive to run on heating, thus more pollution:
Raceways and the racing world in itself?
oh come on, it's noisy, redneck, polluting, let's get modern: let's ban the motor racing world...
Later, people will be accustomed enough
not to bother if anything else gets banned...
Outlaws won't surely bother what's lawful or not, while carjacking you.
2) THE AMERICAN CONSTITUTION:
Farley, when your Constitution was signed in 1787,
it sure was a very different world compared to now.
But not as many people tells you.
There are still political fights, wars, greed, lust and so on.
Hence you have to look at the REASON for the Constitution
to have been written that way:
the United States were coming from an War from Indipendence,
a war in wich common people fought against a ruling, oppressive government.
A Civil War, indeed...
You remember what the Second Amendment said?
Okay, you have to understand WHY it said so.
Not for fear - not only, not MAINLY - of an alien nation attacking,
but to prevent the Nation and its population from an oppressive government.
"The most important influence from the European continent was from Montesquieu, who emphasized the need to have balanced forces pushing against each other to prevent tyranny."
The US were coming right from the tyrannic goverment of the UK,
and the Fathers wanted to point this out:
No matter how many years, decades, or centuries
the US can become old:
There may always come a point
in wich a ruling government is no longer beared from its own citizens:
And we have the right to be able to remove that government from ruling.
It may be standing up as a democracy, look as a democracy,
but since he took all our rights with us just standing and watching
we couldn't help whatever decision that government takes,
since we're helpless.
You Americans quite know what i'm talking about:
the Homeland Security act and the Patriot act ( or whatever it's called )
is - to my eyes - a subtle way to take most of your rights away ( privacy, mostly ),
that's the way it goes: "it'll be for your own good"...
but leaves you hopeless and disarmed.
I stand by what I said, there is absolutely NO POSITIVE reason for a civilian to own an assault rifle. This isn't some controversy about gay marriage, or not being able to wear an IPOD while crossing the street, talking on the cell phone while driving..... THIS IS ABOUT A WEAPON THAT KILLS PEOPLE IN THE WRONG HANDS!!! I'm not saying everyone is irresponsible, but I fall back on my original claim.... THERE IS NO REASON A CIVILIAN SHOULD OWN SUCH A PIECE OF WEAPONRY!!! NO REASON AT ALL!!!
Other than collecting fully automatic assault weapons, someone.... please, name ONE, just ONE good reason a civilian should own a weapon with this type of force and killing capacity?
NAME ONE!!!!
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 964
From: Genova, Italy
Re: Home Protection
This country is too fucked up for people to just own fully automatic assault rifles. Not everyone has the money to put their weapons in a full gun case that weighs 600lbs and can't exactly be piggy backed out of your house. The other problem with owning a gun of this magnitude is the liability that it falls into the wrong hands. Unless you have been trained and have demonstrated through proper training (such as military or police, not an everyday citizen being trained) then you can own this type of weapon.
as long as i've learned here, seems like there's a Class III License to get,
before you can get hands on a full-auto gun.
Doesn't this license come with a proper training, and a requirement to have decent safes to store these guns into?
Doesn't that license mean that you're aware
of what owning those things can lead to?
Furthermore,
what IS an "Assault Rifle"?
If someone backs you up with a .308 hunting scoped rifle while you're robbering a bank, isn't it as dangerous as any "assault weapon", or worse?
it's not the guns to be BAD, it's the way you use 'em.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,259
From: N/A
Re: Home Protection
I just wanted to quote something that could be
much clearer than the bunch of words i've written:
it's from Noah Webster, former Federalist, during the Philadelphia Convention in 1787:
"A [Another] source of power in government is a military force. But this, to be efficient, must be superior to any force that exists among the people, or which they can command; for otherwise this force would be annihilated, on the first exercise of acts of oppression. Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States"
At that time, nor Apache AH64Ds or F22s existed, tough..
much clearer than the bunch of words i've written:
it's from Noah Webster, former Federalist, during the Philadelphia Convention in 1787:
"A [Another] source of power in government is a military force. But this, to be efficient, must be superior to any force that exists among the people, or which they can command; for otherwise this force would be annihilated, on the first exercise of acts of oppression. Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States"
At that time, nor Apache AH64Ds or F22s existed, tough..
Having strong morals is the backbone of this country, but the problem is once it goes to the courtroom is becomes trivial and your moral fabric is dismissed at the door. Our judicial system is falling apart, our congressmen/women are getting out of control with these laws and proposals. They are forgetting what is important and what is not, and are focusing on a micro level, not a macro level. Law makers are making new laws instead of enforcing old ones that are important.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 964
From: Genova, Italy
Re: Home Protection
So you are telling me you can sit there and honestly compare ASSAULT RIFLES to Pollution? Are you mad? Are you ill? THAT'S NOT EVEN IN THE SAME REALM!!!! Pollution, traffic, smog, electricity, global warming, obesity, diabetes, crude oils, smoking, etc etc etc.... these are all things that OVER TIME can kill you. OVER TIME can be a big problem.
I can compare all of them since all of those LEGALLY owned things have
ONE thing in common:
Fun.
LEGALLY owned autos are fun to their owners just like a big huge V8 is fun to their drivers.
BTW, you don't want to compare the number of people
killed from ILLEGAL autos and ILLEGAL drunken drivers, don't you?
it'd be a shock to know what's more of a danger, among them two..
How many times have you seen articles in magazines, newspapers, online, or videos on news stations, the internet, everyday TV that have people with assault rifles? A TON DON'T YOU!! And guess what, all of these things aren't reporting people who are safely abiding by all laws with this assault rifle locked away in a cabinet....
wich have nothing in common with law-abiding citizens.
Already did..
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,259
From: N/A
Re: Home Protection
Having a weapon of such force is ridiculous. There are certain things civilians should have, and there are certain things that we should not. And owning a weapon like that should not be in the hands of the average American.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,259
From: N/A
Re: Home Protection
I can compare all of them since all of those LEGALLY owned things have
ONE thing in common:
Fun.
LEGALLY owned autos are fun to their owners just like a big huge V8 is fun to their drivers.
BTW, you don't want to compare the number of people
killed from ILLEGAL autos and ILLEGAL drunken drivers, don't you?
it'd be a shock to know what's more of a danger, among them two..
ONE thing in common:
Fun.
LEGALLY owned autos are fun to their owners just like a big huge V8 is fun to their drivers.
BTW, you don't want to compare the number of people
killed from ILLEGAL autos and ILLEGAL drunken drivers, don't you?
it'd be a shock to know what's more of a danger, among them two..
Originally Posted by GTS FEVER
No, in fact not. they're reporting outlaws with illegally owned guns.
wich have nothing in common with law-abiding citizens.
wich have nothing in common with law-abiding citizens.
Originally Posted by GTS FEVER
Already did..
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,259
From: N/A
Re: Home Protection
as long as i've learned here, seems like there's a Class III License to get,
before you can get hands on a full-auto gun.
Doesn't this license come with a proper training, and a requirement to have decent safes to store these guns into?
Doesn't that license mean that you're aware
of what owning those things can lead to?
Furthermore,
what IS an "Assault Rifle"?
If someone backs you up with a .308 hunting scoped rifle while you're robbering a bank, isn't it as dangerous as any "assault weapon", or worse?
it's not the guns to be BAD, it's the way you use 'em.
before you can get hands on a full-auto gun.
Doesn't this license come with a proper training, and a requirement to have decent safes to store these guns into?
Doesn't that license mean that you're aware
of what owning those things can lead to?
Furthermore,
what IS an "Assault Rifle"?
If someone backs you up with a .308 hunting scoped rifle while you're robbering a bank, isn't it as dangerous as any "assault weapon", or worse?
it's not the guns to be BAD, it's the way you use 'em.
And you tell me, if you were up against an assault rifle or a handgun in the hands of a mad man and you were thinking of your chances of surviving, which one would you rather be looking down the barrel of with the greater chance of living?
Last edited by N/A; Feb 8, 2007 at 06:31 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 964
From: Genova, Italy
Re: Home Protection
An ASSAULT rifle was built for ONE reason, and ONE reason only... and that is to kill! Find me a hunter who uses and AR15? You won't find one, it's not it's intended use. Owning a handgun, practical for a cop it was built for self defense. Understandable, but you don't carry around an AR15 do you for self defense! That gun is designed to kill, SIMPLE!
And you tell me, if you were up against an assault rifle or a handgun in the hands of a mad man and you were thinking of your chances of surving, which one would you rather be looking down the barrel of with the greater chance of living?
And you tell me, if you were up against an assault rifle or a handgun in the hands of a mad man and you were thinking of your chances of surving, which one would you rather be looking down the barrel of with the greater chance of living?
would keep them off from madmen's hands?
An AR, well i'd buy one of these. For collection, obviously.
I'm in love with the english L1A1, and the old Garand and the A2:
they're beautiful pieces of design and mechanics.
but I wouldn't think of having a FAL as a concealed weapon of course..
Aware that, apart from the Garand,
they won't ever be far as efficent as an innocent, bolt action scoped rifle could be
if anyone ever wants to kill me.
Retired
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 37,967
From: .
Re: Home Protection
So you are telling me you can sit there and honestly compare ASSAULT RIFLES to Pollution? Are you mad? Are you ill? THAT'S NOT EVEN IN THE SAME REALM!!!! Pollution, traffic, smog, electricity, global warming, obesity, diabetes, crude oils, smoking, etc etc etc.... these are all things that OVER TIME can kill you. OVER TIME can be a big problem. OVER TIME will in fact criple this country if we don't DO something about it. But notice how I said "DO"! We, as a country can help to eliminate these problems through dieting, exercise, hydrogen built cars, education, etc etc and will in time correct these problems. Owning a fully automatic assault rifle is nothing to be compared too. How many times have you seen articles in magazines, newspapers, online, or videos on news stations, the internet, everyday TV that have people with assault rifles? A TON DON'T YOU!! And guess what, all of these things aren't reporting people who are safely abiding by all laws with this assault rifle locked away in a cabinet.... NOOOOoooo, these are all reports showing someone using an assault rifle in a horrific way. Spraying bullets at police officers trying to defend you, the public!!! Yet they are the ones getting shot and their lives changing forever!
I stand by what I said, there is absolutely NO POSITIVE reason for a civilian to own an assault rifle. This isn't some controversy about gay marriage, or not being able to wear an IPOD while crossing the street, talking on the cell phone while driving..... THIS IS ABOUT A WEAPON THAT KILLS PEOPLE IN THE WRONG HANDS!!! I'm not saying everyone is irresponsible, but I fall back on my original claim.... THERE IS NO REASON A CIVILIAN SHOULD OWN SUCH A PIECE OF WEAPONRY!!! NO REASON AT ALL!!!
Other than collecting fully automatic assault weapons, someone.... please, name ONE, just ONE good reason a civilian should own a weapon with this type of force and killing capacity?
NAME ONE!!!!
I stand by what I said, there is absolutely NO POSITIVE reason for a civilian to own an assault rifle. This isn't some controversy about gay marriage, or not being able to wear an IPOD while crossing the street, talking on the cell phone while driving..... THIS IS ABOUT A WEAPON THAT KILLS PEOPLE IN THE WRONG HANDS!!! I'm not saying everyone is irresponsible, but I fall back on my original claim.... THERE IS NO REASON A CIVILIAN SHOULD OWN SUCH A PIECE OF WEAPONRY!!! NO REASON AT ALL!!!
Other than collecting fully automatic assault weapons, someone.... please, name ONE, just ONE good reason a civilian should own a weapon with this type of force and killing capacity?
NAME ONE!!!!
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,259
From: N/A
Retired
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 37,967
From: .
Re: Home Protection
OH, hydrogen vehicles. My roomate from college works on that GM program. Technology will be ready before the infrastructure to refill them is in place. THey will have to build new fill stations across the nation and replace all gas/diesel stations. My personal pick for a mid-term (less than 50 year) solution is biodiesel.
One of my other roomates in college was working on a moron proof hydrogen fill valve. Think of how may retards you hear of driving off with with the gas pump still in their car. Now instead of a flamable liquid, try that with an explosive gas at 3,000PSI plus. Bad news.
What happened to my blox?
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,412
From: THE LEFT COAST
Re: Home Protection
OH, hydrogen vehicles. My roomate from college works on that GM program. Technology will be ready before the infrastructure to refill them is in place. THey will have to build new fill stations across the nation and replace all gas/diesel stations. My personal pick for a mid-term (less than 50 year) solution is biodiesel.
One of my other roomates in college was working on a moron proof hydrogen fill valve. Think of how may retards you hear of driving off with with the gas pump still in their car. Now instead of a flamable liquid, try that with an explosive gas at 3,000PSI plus. Bad news.
One of my other roomates in college was working on a moron proof hydrogen fill valve. Think of how may retards you hear of driving off with with the gas pump still in their car. Now instead of a flamable liquid, try that with an explosive gas at 3,000PSI plus. Bad news.
that shouldnt be very hard to engineer
, cereally. i used to work as a chemical engineer in crude refineries and we had to develope all kinds of secondary check valves for the transfer of naptha (raw gasoline, very flammable) and other gases (methane, butane, etc).-the mexican
Retired
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 37,967
From: .
Re: Home Protection
that shouldnt be very hard to engineer , cereally. i used to work as a chemical engineer in crude refineries and we had to develope all kinds of secondary check valves for the transfer of naptha (raw gasoline, very flammable) and other gases (methane, butane, etc).
-the mexican
, cereally. i used to work as a chemical engineer in crude refineries and we had to develope all kinds of secondary check valves for the transfer of naptha (raw gasoline, very flammable) and other gases (methane, butane, etc).-the mexican
What happened to my blox?
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,412
From: THE LEFT COAST
it would be hard to make one with 0% chance of failure for any female regardless of age Registered User
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,259
From: N/A
Re: Home Protection
You really think that banning legally owned assault weapons
would keep them off from madmen's hands?
An AR, well i'd buy one of these. For collection, obviously.
I'm in love with the english L1A1, and the old Garand and the A2:
they're beautiful pieces of design and mechanics.
but I wouldn't think of having a FAL as a concealed weapon of course..
Aware that, apart from the Garand,
they won't ever be far as efficent as an innocent, bolt action scoped rifle could be
if anyone ever wants to kill me.
would keep them off from madmen's hands?
An AR, well i'd buy one of these. For collection, obviously.
I'm in love with the english L1A1, and the old Garand and the A2:
they're beautiful pieces of design and mechanics.
but I wouldn't think of having a FAL as a concealed weapon of course..
Aware that, apart from the Garand,
they won't ever be far as efficent as an innocent, bolt action scoped rifle could be
if anyone ever wants to kill me.
Guru
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 450
From: BAY AREA
Re: Home Protection
Exactly, it's the way you use them. And a sawed off shotgun is horribly lethal. But that was NOT it's intention. A shotgun is typically used for hunting or sport, not for self defense. An ASSAULT rifle was built for ONE reason, and ONE reason only... and that is to kill! Find me a hunter who uses an AR15? You won't find one, it's not it's intended use. Owning a handgun, practical for a cop it was built for self defense. Understandable, but you don't carry around an AR15 do you for self defense! That gun is designed to kill, SIMPLE!
And you tell me, if you were up against an assault rifle or a handgun in the hands of a mad man and you were thinking of your chances of surviving, which one would you rather be looking down the barrel of with the greater chance of living?
And you tell me, if you were up against an assault rifle or a handgun in the hands of a mad man and you were thinking of your chances of surviving, which one would you rather be looking down the barrel of with the greater chance of living?
Guru
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 450
From: BAY AREA
Re: Home Protection
one more thing.. after you get your head out of your ***.. here are some stats...Since 1934, there appear to have been at least two homicides committed with legally owned automatic weapons. One was a murder committed by a law enforcement officer (as opposed to a civilian). On September 15th, 1988, a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to 18 years in prison off .. people who own legal class 3 weapons do not use them for crime or killing.. and thats from the batf... so i say out of 240,000 registerd machine guns in the us.. thats pretty dam good ...
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 244
From: avondale, az, usa
Re: Home Protection
things make more sense to me now farley, now that ive found out your dad is a ex-cop. NO wonder you think they way you do. Cops don't like the public to have guns. It means that they have to still abide by the law and cant be completely tyranical as they would like to be. It takes a special breed to be a pig.
And yeah lets just take away guns, that way the only people armed are criminals and our goverment. theres a ****** good idea from the liberal asshat community. But hey its all ok because you were GONNA join the marines.........rolls eyes.............its tree huggin liberals like you that are bringing this country down. Your so willing to hand over your freedoms so that you feel "safer". Your a sheep. I used to try and educate people like you.....now i just wish we could deport you.
And yeah lets just take away guns, that way the only people armed are criminals and our goverment. theres a ****** good idea from the liberal asshat community. But hey its all ok because you were GONNA join the marines.........rolls eyes.............its tree huggin liberals like you that are bringing this country down. Your so willing to hand over your freedoms so that you feel "safer". Your a sheep. I used to try and educate people like you.....now i just wish we could deport you.
