what makes a pro rider?
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 115
From: AURORA, IL
Re: what makes a pro rider?
Originally Posted by StuntRagz Chris
that is on point, only thing i would add is total score for that run needs to be announced after that run so everyone knows what's going on.
you could even have two rounds a tally both for overall score.
you could even have two rounds a tally both for overall score.
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Posts: n/a
Re: what makes a pro rider?
Originally Posted by rainman
BTW... there is normally one judge per category, vs 5 judges judging all categories.
all the more reason to set it up the way i was sayin.........relying on a single judge per "discipline" can lead to a more biased scoring for said discipline
Originally Posted by rainman
Which also means that it has to be easy to score, and easy to tabulate. The riders and crowd need to know asap, who is in the lead, and the score that they need to beat.
sorta one of the reasons i said to have a couple other people tabulate the scores.......shouldnt take long with a calculator in hand
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 198
From: Glendizzle, AZ
Re: what makes a pro rider?
Originally Posted by sclevela
exactly.......especially if we are looking to the future of television exposure.......how many sports announcers for tv do u know right now that knows the difference between a one handed wheelie and a no throttle hand wheelie nevermind the more complex tricks!
technically it is still freestyle.................ur not tellin the rider what he can and can not do..........ur simply askin him to put in the time and effort to design a well organized well rounded run.......tell u on paper what that run will be........and execute it......i believe planning out a run will not only improve the overall quality of the show but also give u a more acurate portrayal of a champion in the end.......to add something i also firmly believe that the rider should have to have his run/routine turned in far enough in advance of the event (along with entry fees so u have a good idea of the number of competitors u will have to accomidate) that the run sheet can be reviewed by the powers that be and or the judges. Further more no rider should be able to turn the same run sheet or routine in twice in one season.
they may be more interested when they are really made to sit down and think about the fact that more organized and skilled runs strung together in a flawless manner (due to being able to spend plenty of time practicing said run in the days and weeks previous to an event) would be much more pleasing to watch from a fans perspective........hence drawing a larger more interested crowd........eventually!
i like the idea of all of that but it would make the entire process much more accurate and less confusing...........think about it the rider has only 3 minutes to fit all the abov e mentioned things in..........and a judge is supposed to accuratly "judge all of it on about 5 different categories............especially with the way todays riders are stringing together combos and tricks it would make it much less compliocated to have the judges review the run on paper ahead of time and say "ok as long as he follows his run he covers all the tricks necessary " if he fails to follow his run he loses points ..........point blank.........
it also takes the complication of the difficulty factor out of it........all tricks can be rated on the individuals run sheets ahead of time with a difficulty factor..........therefore the judge now only has to do 2 things...........make sure said rider follows his run to a tee.......and to make sure the rider does so without makin mistakes the rest is left to just punching numbers at the end of the event ....... for example dan jackson turns in a run with 20 tricks.........before the event the judges read what his run is (and keep that run sheet to follow along during his run)..........on that sheet it is noted say in multipliers of 1-5 the degree of difficulty per trick and or per combo (going from a sit down to a spreader to a highchair wheelie would have a combo multiplier higher than just goin from a sit down to a spreader for example)....there for all the judge has to do now is rate the overall run on a scale based on execution/staying within the planned run......on a certain scale, then rate how each trick was performed individually and how well each combo was strung together...........then at the end of the event said judges turn over their score sheets to someone else who computes the scores and multipliers and comes up with an overall score!
i could go on forever and if anything is unclear ask and ill explain but i think this system could possibly work weel and be more accuratly judged!
technically it is still freestyle.................ur not tellin the rider what he can and can not do..........ur simply askin him to put in the time and effort to design a well organized well rounded run.......tell u on paper what that run will be........and execute it......i believe planning out a run will not only improve the overall quality of the show but also give u a more acurate portrayal of a champion in the end.......to add something i also firmly believe that the rider should have to have his run/routine turned in far enough in advance of the event (along with entry fees so u have a good idea of the number of competitors u will have to accomidate) that the run sheet can be reviewed by the powers that be and or the judges. Further more no rider should be able to turn the same run sheet or routine in twice in one season.
they may be more interested when they are really made to sit down and think about the fact that more organized and skilled runs strung together in a flawless manner (due to being able to spend plenty of time practicing said run in the days and weeks previous to an event) would be much more pleasing to watch from a fans perspective........hence drawing a larger more interested crowd........eventually!
i like the idea of all of that but it would make the entire process much more accurate and less confusing...........think about it the rider has only 3 minutes to fit all the abov e mentioned things in..........and a judge is supposed to accuratly "judge all of it on about 5 different categories............especially with the way todays riders are stringing together combos and tricks it would make it much less compliocated to have the judges review the run on paper ahead of time and say "ok as long as he follows his run he covers all the tricks necessary " if he fails to follow his run he loses points ..........point blank.........
it also takes the complication of the difficulty factor out of it........all tricks can be rated on the individuals run sheets ahead of time with a difficulty factor..........therefore the judge now only has to do 2 things...........make sure said rider follows his run to a tee.......and to make sure the rider does so without makin mistakes the rest is left to just punching numbers at the end of the event ....... for example dan jackson turns in a run with 20 tricks.........before the event the judges read what his run is (and keep that run sheet to follow along during his run)..........on that sheet it is noted say in multipliers of 1-5 the degree of difficulty per trick and or per combo (going from a sit down to a spreader to a highchair wheelie would have a combo multiplier higher than just goin from a sit down to a spreader for example)....there for all the judge has to do now is rate the overall run on a scale based on execution/staying within the planned run......on a certain scale, then rate how each trick was performed individually and how well each combo was strung together...........then at the end of the event said judges turn over their score sheets to someone else who computes the scores and multipliers and comes up with an overall score!
i could go on forever and if anything is unclear ask and ill explain but i think this system could possibly work weel and be more accuratly judged!
In BMX, which is where I have my background, judging runs included an element of "flow" or "style". I don't think we want to lose the flow, style or the possibility of linking and seeing a rider accidentally do something really cool. If a rider does a highchair and accidentally ends up doing a circle...hell, more power to him, he just got style points in my book-even if it was luck. However, the judging system that rainman had described, seems fair.
No matter what, there will be riders that don't like the outcome, may not agree with it, or may even think they got screwed positively or negatively by judging. We are participants in an extreme or action sport, and judging someones ability against another persons ability is not an exact science, hence is why you try to install judging criteria and try to avoid making someone feel screwed. Bottom line is that contests shouldn't be a winner take all and screw everyone, but should be a celebration for everyones abilities and be a way to get together with long-distance friends and ride. Eventually, filling a few pockets also.
As for T.V. commentators, look at the X gaymes, or the Gravity Games, the announcers usually are retired or washed up (for lack of a better term) participants of that discipline. I don't think this sport has any washed up stunters yet, but I wouldn't mind filling the role of commentator or announcer.
Eric
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,144
From: up north ,WA.
Re: what makes a pro rider?
Originally Posted by Kaneone
HATERADE proud sponsor of stuntlife.com
--
pro means more than just getting paid to do what you do. according to websters dictionary pro is defined as a person who relies on (insert profession here) for soul income.
kane
--
pro means more than just getting paid to do what you do. according to websters dictionary pro is defined as a person who relies on (insert profession here) for soul income.
kane
dedrater
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 9,815
From: Lewiston, Me
Re: what makes a pro rider?
Originally Posted by sclevela
exactly.......especially if we are looking to the future of television exposure.......how many sports announcers for tv do u know right now that knows the difference between a one handed wheelie and a no throttle hand wheelie nevermind the more complex tricks!
technically it is still freestyle.................ur not tellin the rider what he can and can not do..........ur simply askin him to put in the time and effort to design a well organized well rounded run.......tell u on paper what that run will be........and execute it......i believe planning out a run will not only improve the overall quality of the show but also give u a more acurate portrayal of a champion in the end.......to add something i also firmly believe that the rider should have to have his run/routine turned in far enough in advance of the event (along with entry fees so u have a good idea of the number of competitors u will have to accomidate) that the run sheet can be reviewed by the powers that be and or the judges. Further more no rider should be able to turn the same run sheet or routine in twice in one season.
they may be more interested when they are really made to sit down and think about the fact that more organized and skilled runs strung together in a flawless manner (due to being able to spend plenty of time practicing said run in the days and weeks previous to an event) would be much more pleasing to watch from a fans perspective........hence drawing a larger more interested crowd........eventually!
i like the idea of all of that but it would make the entire process much more accurate and less confusing...........think about it the rider has only 3 minutes to fit all the abov e mentioned things in..........and a judge is supposed to accuratly "judge all of it on about 5 different categories............especially with the way todays riders are stringing together combos and tricks it would make it much less compliocated to have the judges review the run on paper ahead of time and say "ok as long as he follows his run he covers all the tricks necessary " if he fails to follow his run he loses points ..........point blank.........
it also takes the complication of the difficulty factor out of it........all tricks can be rated on the individuals run sheets ahead of time with a difficulty factor..........therefore the judge now only has to do 2 things...........make sure said rider follows his run to a tee.......and to make sure the rider does so without makin mistakes the rest is left to just punching numbers at the end of the event ....... for example dan jackson turns in a run with 20 tricks.........before the event the judges read what his run is (and keep that run sheet to follow along during his run)..........on that sheet it is noted say in multipliers of 1-5 the degree of difficulty per trick and or per combo (going from a sit down to a spreader to a highchair wheelie would have a combo multiplier higher than just goin from a sit down to a spreader for example)....there for all the judge has to do now is rate the overall run on a scale based on execution/staying within the planned run......on a certain scale, then rate how each trick was performed individually and how well each combo was strung together...........then at the end of the event said judges turn over their score sheets to someone else who computes the scores and multipliers and comes up with an overall score!
i could go on forever and if anything is unclear ask and ill explain but i think this system could possibly work weel and be more accuratly judged!
technically it is still freestyle.................ur not tellin the rider what he can and can not do..........ur simply askin him to put in the time and effort to design a well organized well rounded run.......tell u on paper what that run will be........and execute it......i believe planning out a run will not only improve the overall quality of the show but also give u a more acurate portrayal of a champion in the end.......to add something i also firmly believe that the rider should have to have his run/routine turned in far enough in advance of the event (along with entry fees so u have a good idea of the number of competitors u will have to accomidate) that the run sheet can be reviewed by the powers that be and or the judges. Further more no rider should be able to turn the same run sheet or routine in twice in one season.
they may be more interested when they are really made to sit down and think about the fact that more organized and skilled runs strung together in a flawless manner (due to being able to spend plenty of time practicing said run in the days and weeks previous to an event) would be much more pleasing to watch from a fans perspective........hence drawing a larger more interested crowd........eventually!
i like the idea of all of that but it would make the entire process much more accurate and less confusing...........think about it the rider has only 3 minutes to fit all the abov e mentioned things in..........and a judge is supposed to accuratly "judge all of it on about 5 different categories............especially with the way todays riders are stringing together combos and tricks it would make it much less compliocated to have the judges review the run on paper ahead of time and say "ok as long as he follows his run he covers all the tricks necessary " if he fails to follow his run he loses points ..........point blank.........
it also takes the complication of the difficulty factor out of it........all tricks can be rated on the individuals run sheets ahead of time with a difficulty factor..........therefore the judge now only has to do 2 things...........make sure said rider follows his run to a tee.......and to make sure the rider does so without makin mistakes the rest is left to just punching numbers at the end of the event ....... for example dan jackson turns in a run with 20 tricks.........before the event the judges read what his run is (and keep that run sheet to follow along during his run)..........on that sheet it is noted say in multipliers of 1-5 the degree of difficulty per trick and or per combo (going from a sit down to a spreader to a highchair wheelie would have a combo multiplier higher than just goin from a sit down to a spreader for example)....there for all the judge has to do now is rate the overall run on a scale based on execution/staying within the planned run......on a certain scale, then rate how each trick was performed individually and how well each combo was strung together...........then at the end of the event said judges turn over their score sheets to someone else who computes the scores and multipliers and comes up with an overall score!
i could go on forever and if anything is unclear ask and ill explain but i think this system could possibly work weel and be more accuratly judged!
Ok so here is a question to throw you guys for a loop. Say said rider submits a written run like you were speaking of, Things go wrong on a specific run, and another trick is added to compensate.... Say a combo or something and one trick cant be executed for some reason and things go bod but rider recovers with say an ape hanger...etc. Would additional points be added to riders score because he was able to recover well or would points be subtracted?
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Posts: n/a
Re: what makes a pro rider?
Originally Posted by verticaljay
Ok so here is a question to throw you guys for a loop. Say said rider submits a written run like you were speaking of, Things go wrong on a specific run, and another trick is added to compensate.... Say a combo or something and one trick cant be executed for some reason and things go bod but rider recovers with say an ape hanger...etc. Would additional points be added to riders score because he was able to recover well or would points be subtracted?
I Enjoy Posting At StuntLife!
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,446
From: Orlando
Re: what makes a pro rider?
I think that each rider's run should be video recorded in high definition from 6 different camera angles, including a helmet cam. Once the rider has completed his run, the 5 judges will review the tapes on a 48" plasma flatscreen monitor to determine their score.
Simultaneously, a crew of 50 bikini models will survey the entire audience for their oppinion of the rider's performance.
Once the judges and crowd have made their final decisions, the two scores will be averaged together and then multiplied by 3.146833 to determine the final score.
Simultaneously, a crew of 50 bikini models will survey the entire audience for their oppinion of the rider's performance.
Once the judges and crowd have made their final decisions, the two scores will be averaged together and then multiplied by 3.146833 to determine the final score.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: what makes a pro rider?
Originally Posted by Dirty B
I think that each rider's run should be video recorded in high definition from 6 different camera angles, including a helmet cam. Once the rider has completed his run, the 5 judges will review the tapes on a 48" plasma flatscreen monitor to determine their score.
Simultaneously, a crew of 50 bikini models will survey the entire audience for their oppinion of the rider's performance.
Once the judges and crowd have made their final decisions, the two scores will be averaged together and then multiplied by 3.146833 to determine the final score.
Simultaneously, a crew of 50 bikini models will survey the entire audience for their oppinion of the rider's performance.
Once the judges and crowd have made their final decisions, the two scores will be averaged together and then multiplied by 3.146833 to determine the final score.
f u b!
I Chose to No Longer Post
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 181
From: Ny
Re: what makes a pro rider?
I think everyone is missing the point even though Im nobody. It should be like skateboarding. In skating, its the team that has pros and amateurs within the team, and it is the team that chooses. For example: team X has 10 riders, 6 amateurs and 4 pros. One of the Ams clearly steps his game up, and the team makes him a pro. In skating though the teams so to speak are the board companies, which you can't really think of in terms of bike companies, but you could have like for example: Team X who is clearly sponsered by company a, b, and c. The pros get more money and goods from the sponsors, and the ams get less untill they step up their game and become pro. And it isn't all about competition. Some of the best skaters in the industry don't compete in competitions, they just show up in ads, and have insane video parts.
So for those of you who are still with me, I beleive this is how the future of this sport, activity whatever......will be. Stunt teams with sponsors. Pros and Ams within the teams. The teams choose and appropriate the money and free ****(which their will eventually be) to whoever is a pro or Am.
P.S. Im nobody.
So for those of you who are still with me, I beleive this is how the future of this sport, activity whatever......will be. Stunt teams with sponsors. Pros and Ams within the teams. The teams choose and appropriate the money and free ****(which their will eventually be) to whoever is a pro or Am.
P.S. Im nobody.
I Chose to No Longer Post
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 660
From: Behind the Keyboard
Re: what makes a pro rider?
Dont forget boys and girl.. youre not a pro unless you call out ever punk out here on stuntlife thats ever got a minute or two of you on dv footage and wants to put out a dvd..
FREESTYLE ARTIST
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,103
From: NJ/NY/CA
Re: what makes a pro rider?
everyone here makes good points and there really is not a correct answer aside from birty b and the bikinni models
seriously, us riders are special people, we are more artists than anything else, i agree with some of the things d man mensioned earlier in the thread about making sacrifices and all that but whats important here is that we continue to make the sacrifices,stay open minded to all the ideas and try everything at this point to develop the perfect formula for the riders to be judged fairly, get the spectators to buy the seats and get the sponsors the exposure and get the riders the exposure.
but Ill be damed if the riders dont earn what they deserve and the promoters keep all the dinero//
lastly enough is enough with all of these fly by night event promoters that put on low budget bullshit first time comps, who steal our images and give us nothing back
and for all you guys wondering about pro/amature and all that
i dont know, i refered to myself as a pro rider in black sheep because the whole year prior to that i had been full time riding
I am still riding fulltime, now in europe, and based off of the way ive seen it over here I would say Im a semi pro at this point in my career
based off the conclusion of
how you are respected in the mainstreme motorcycle world so on snd so forth
When Harley Davidson hands over 8 bikes,truck,parts ,equipmentand a scedual of shows to Craig Jones,that makes him a pro
When Triumph has Kevin Charmichale doing all of the posters, testing the bikes, and a fleet of the whole line of 2004 triumps,that makes him a pro.
if you do a bunch of shows a year,and your presentation is good and thats all you do and you get respect and support,then you are a pro i guess
who the hell knows
all i know is this,if you buy a bike, learn fast and get good enough to get a decent routine togother and do a couple of shows then walk around like you are the **** and not give up respect when its time,you are a punk.
we are all grown up now and we know who can do what so lets do it already ive been down.
as long as its good for everyone--------
seriously, us riders are special people, we are more artists than anything else, i agree with some of the things d man mensioned earlier in the thread about making sacrifices and all that but whats important here is that we continue to make the sacrifices,stay open minded to all the ideas and try everything at this point to develop the perfect formula for the riders to be judged fairly, get the spectators to buy the seats and get the sponsors the exposure and get the riders the exposure.
but Ill be damed if the riders dont earn what they deserve and the promoters keep all the dinero//
lastly enough is enough with all of these fly by night event promoters that put on low budget bullshit first time comps, who steal our images and give us nothing back
and for all you guys wondering about pro/amature and all that
i dont know, i refered to myself as a pro rider in black sheep because the whole year prior to that i had been full time riding
I am still riding fulltime, now in europe, and based off of the way ive seen it over here I would say Im a semi pro at this point in my career
based off the conclusion of
how you are respected in the mainstreme motorcycle world so on snd so forth
When Harley Davidson hands over 8 bikes,truck,parts ,equipmentand a scedual of shows to Craig Jones,that makes him a pro
When Triumph has Kevin Charmichale doing all of the posters, testing the bikes, and a fleet of the whole line of 2004 triumps,that makes him a pro.
if you do a bunch of shows a year,and your presentation is good and thats all you do and you get respect and support,then you are a pro i guess
who the hell knows
all i know is this,if you buy a bike, learn fast and get good enough to get a decent routine togother and do a couple of shows then walk around like you are the **** and not give up respect when its time,you are a punk.
we are all grown up now and we know who can do what so lets do it already ive been down.
as long as its good for everyone--------
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