I have an idea, stunters unite to get paid?!
Thread Starter
Yea...I got that!
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,468
From: Tampa Fl.
Re: I have an idea, stunters unite to get paid?!
They will figure it out though when the revolution forms up!
Registered User
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 941
From: Tell City, Indiana, US
Re: I have an idea, stunters unite to get paid?!
Which is why the union reps will develop a scale. Its not the riders job to worry about the BS job of getting paid, they should worry about getting and keeping their game tight! That's why the pro ball players have agents.
They will figure it out though when the revolution forms up!
They will figure it out though when the revolution forms up!
GRAHAM
Thread Starter
Yea...I got that!
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,468
From: Tampa Fl.
Re: I have an idea, stunters unite to get paid?!
Dude I'd put you out there and make SURE you got paid bro! I just want to see you guys paid what I know you are worth! Its so damn easy for a promoter or agent to NOT see value or all the time and effort put into learning what you know! Graham, how much did that lil hand incident cost you? Time lost on the job, Loss of use, Loss of mobility, Lost ability to compete & train, and on and on!! No one appreciates that bro, no one sees what REAL time and energy we as riders put in. I'm a nobody bro, I can do minimal str8line **** and circles, some combos etc.. but I'll never see a competition and that's just fine with me. Its a hobby. I got a couple of stunt rags and a few mint pieces that I roll on the roads. But you guys...people like you and a lot of the local talent I see out all the time don't get the pedestal to stand on as they should! Its a shame man. I think (after talking to a bunch of people locally) I'm gonna try to start this thing in the sunshine state! Maybe we'll be the 1st state to unionize our performing talent. I think California has a union for actors and screeplayers etc... Why not an "Extreme Sport Union"? I dunno, If anyone is interested in helping out PM me. I mean we can sit and talk about it forever or we can just get it done!
PS I figured out how it would work as far as who got shows...
Lets say they have a show at the Florida State Fairgrounds. The Promotion director contacts the local rep about getting 4 riders. Well the rep will go into the database for union riders and find 6 riders with zip codes closest to the event. He will pull their files (they will have pics, maybe a video and some stats on file) and give the files via e-mail to the promoter. Ask the promoter to look over the files and pick his 4. After the pick the riders will ALL be contacted...the 4 the promoter picked and 2 backup riders just in case one or more get hurt, pop an engine, etc.. Then the rep will discuss rates, per diem for travel, food fuel etc. and prepare a package. Upon agreement the promoter will cut a check to the union itself and the union rep will cut a check to the riders at the close of the show! This way if you are one of the 4 people you have been guaranteed a show with a bottom line established so no worries, just practice and be ready! ...Wanted to add that part...
PS I figured out how it would work as far as who got shows...
Lets say they have a show at the Florida State Fairgrounds. The Promotion director contacts the local rep about getting 4 riders. Well the rep will go into the database for union riders and find 6 riders with zip codes closest to the event. He will pull their files (they will have pics, maybe a video and some stats on file) and give the files via e-mail to the promoter. Ask the promoter to look over the files and pick his 4. After the pick the riders will ALL be contacted...the 4 the promoter picked and 2 backup riders just in case one or more get hurt, pop an engine, etc.. Then the rep will discuss rates, per diem for travel, food fuel etc. and prepare a package. Upon agreement the promoter will cut a check to the union itself and the union rep will cut a check to the riders at the close of the show! This way if you are one of the 4 people you have been guaranteed a show with a bottom line established so no worries, just practice and be ready! ...Wanted to add that part...
Last edited by Reckless01; Sep 7, 2008 at 07:31 PM.
STUNT SYNDICATE
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 439
From: pimpin wheelies in chicago
Re: I have an idea, stunters unite to get paid?!
dsog basically already does this with monster truck shows and some other stuff as well....
as for the union, good idea in theory...makes me feel like i'm back in 01 or 02 though and i think the same problems still exist for the most part, especially with smaller, independent promoters...there is always someone who will do it cheaper and if they don't want the value they won't pay for it.
sport is still not really big enough to warrant anything like this imo...in the situations where it is warranted (live nation/dsog) it sort of works itself out automatically. I dare say that there are a handful of riders who in a sense act like an unofficial union....but so many problems arise from something liek this.
i'll drop negative nancy off now! lol
as for the union, good idea in theory...makes me feel like i'm back in 01 or 02 though and i think the same problems still exist for the most part, especially with smaller, independent promoters...there is always someone who will do it cheaper and if they don't want the value they won't pay for it.
sport is still not really big enough to warrant anything like this imo...in the situations where it is warranted (live nation/dsog) it sort of works itself out automatically. I dare say that there are a handful of riders who in a sense act like an unofficial union....but so many problems arise from something liek this.
i'll drop negative nancy off now! lol
nothing negative about that, the input is appreciated!!!
STUNT SYNDICATE
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 439
From: pimpin wheelies in chicago
Re: I have an idea, stunters unite to get paid?!
HE'S ALIVE!!!!!!!! WHATS UP GANTHRO??? BEEN TO LONG SON!
STUNT SYNDICATE
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 439
From: pimpin wheelies in chicago
Re: I have an idea, stunters unite to get paid?!
Which is why the union reps will develop a scale. Its not the riders job to worry about the BS job of getting paid, they should worry about getting and keeping their game tight! That's why the pro ball players have agents.
They will figure it out though when the revolution forms up!
They will figure it out though when the revolution forms up!
ANYTHING YOU NEED FROM UP NORTH OR THE MIDWEST HIT ME UP BRO,I GOT YOU!:YEAH
da fiddy bitches!!!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,816
From: Austin, Tx
Re: I have an idea, stunters unite to get paid?!
lol... i worked for the sheetmetal workers union for awhile... too much bullshit and not enough benefit if you ask me... why the **** should i give them my $$$ when they dont do **** for me??? i found all my own jobs...
STUNT SYNDICATE
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 439
From: pimpin wheelies in chicago
Re: I have an idea, stunters unite to get paid?!
i think it depends on the union in question and how strong it is in that area!!
my entire family is union electricians and has done very well, but thats up north where the union is strong.
with a strong union wages go up and employers cant **** you!!!!
What happened to my blox?
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,412
From: THE LEFT COAST
Re: I have an idea, stunters unite to get paid?!
i think the IBEW and pipefitters/steamfitters are the two strongest unions out there.
Thread Starter
Yea...I got that!
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,468
From: Tampa Fl.
Thread Killer!!!
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,479
From: kosciusko, MS
Re: I have an idea, stunters unite to get paid?!
My opinon is long so you may not want to read it:
Unions are good and bad.
I worked for UPS during their stike way back about 10 yrs ago.
UPS offered us a 3k bonus for full timers and 1500 for part timers plus the 1.60 hr raise every contract year.
The "Teamsters" Union got us put out of work for a month and then when we came back most of the lower rank employees were layed off for about 3-4 months due to lack of work because everybody had switched carriers
On top of that we got NO bonus and only got a .60 raise every contract year.
IMO the union got greedy and fucked everybody below top ranks within their union.
That put a bad taste in my mouth from then on.
My Opinion:
Yeah you gotta stay on your game but I work in Management of a Construction Company and I see alot the Union employees being half assers and slackers. They won't do any more than what they absolutely have to do and bitch about every little thing like & act they are owed employement.
I've worked for 2 different Construction companies 1 union and 1 non union.
I see more productivity and more accomplishment come from the non union workers that usually make what the union guys make because they are willing to get off thier asses and do work.
In the long run what happen is you see less byers or owners looking for Union work because they know that they can get the same or better quality of work and the job done faster by using non union workers and companies. ABout the only contracts I see that request Union workers are government contracts and with how corrupt things are I very seriously doubt it's because of the Quality assurance.
The good:
Well I can see how it would benifit some of the riders that would rather have shows given to them and it would deffinately be an improvement of orginaztion. Like I said earlier, You would have to have 100% buy in from all the riders or it would be more of a pain in the *** than a step forward.
It's not a bad idea I appologize if I seem to shoot down the idea but like I said I have a bad taste from Union in the past.
More questions,I may have missed:
would everybody pay dues?
would the rep get his pay from each contract?
Could your provide a group insurance for union members if they pay dues?
^^ This could be possible since it would be a proffesion...
How would you set up out of country shows? who gets first shot?
And how would you decide who got the gig on a U.S. tour like the Monster Madness deals?
Unions are good and bad.
I worked for UPS during their stike way back about 10 yrs ago.
UPS offered us a 3k bonus for full timers and 1500 for part timers plus the 1.60 hr raise every contract year.
The "Teamsters" Union got us put out of work for a month and then when we came back most of the lower rank employees were layed off for about 3-4 months due to lack of work because everybody had switched carriers
On top of that we got NO bonus and only got a .60 raise every contract year.
IMO the union got greedy and fucked everybody below top ranks within their union.
That put a bad taste in my mouth from then on.
My Opinion:
Yeah you gotta stay on your game but I work in Management of a Construction Company and I see alot the Union employees being half assers and slackers. They won't do any more than what they absolutely have to do and bitch about every little thing like & act they are owed employement.
I've worked for 2 different Construction companies 1 union and 1 non union.
I see more productivity and more accomplishment come from the non union workers that usually make what the union guys make because they are willing to get off thier asses and do work.
In the long run what happen is you see less byers or owners looking for Union work because they know that they can get the same or better quality of work and the job done faster by using non union workers and companies. ABout the only contracts I see that request Union workers are government contracts and with how corrupt things are I very seriously doubt it's because of the Quality assurance.
The good:
Well I can see how it would benifit some of the riders that would rather have shows given to them and it would deffinately be an improvement of orginaztion. Like I said earlier, You would have to have 100% buy in from all the riders or it would be more of a pain in the *** than a step forward.
It's not a bad idea I appologize if I seem to shoot down the idea but like I said I have a bad taste from Union in the past.
More questions,I may have missed:
would everybody pay dues?
would the rep get his pay from each contract?
Could your provide a group insurance for union members if they pay dues?
^^ This could be possible since it would be a proffesion...
How would you set up out of country shows? who gets first shot?
And how would you decide who got the gig on a U.S. tour like the Monster Madness deals?
Last edited by THORPE; Sep 8, 2008 at 12:36 PM.
Thread Starter
Yea...I got that!
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,468
From: Tampa Fl.
Re: I have an idea, stunters unite to get paid?!
My opinon is long so you may not want to read it:
Unions are good and bad.
I worked for UPS during their stike way back about 10 yrs ago.
UPS offered us a 3k bonus for full timers and 1500 for part timers plus the 1.60 hr raise every contract year.
The "Teamsters" Union got us put out of work for a month and then when we came back most of the lower rank employees were layed off for about 3-4 months due to lack of work because everybody had switched carriers
On top of that we got NO bonus and only got a .60 raise every contract year.
IMO the union got greedy and fucked everybody below top ranks within their union.
That put a bad taste in my mouth from then on.
My Opinion:
Yeah you gotta stay on your game but I work in Management of a Construction Company and I see alot the Union employees being half assers and slackers. They won't do any more than what they absolutely have to do and bitch about every little thing like & act they are owed employement.
I've worked for 2 different Construction companies 1 union and 1 non union.
I see more productivity and more accomplishment come from the non union workers that usually make what the union guys make because they are willing to get off thier asses and do work.
In the long run what happen is you see less byers or owners looking for Union work because they know that they can get the same or better quality of work and the job done faster by using non union workers and companies. ABout the only contracts I see that request Union workers are government contracts and with how corrupt things are I very seriously doubt it's because of the Quality assurance.
The good:
Well I can see how it would benifit some of the riders that would rather have shows given to them and it would deffinately be an improvement of orginaztion. Like I said earlier, You would have to have 100% buy in from all the riders or it would be more of a pain in the *** than a step forward.
It's not a bad idea I appologize if I seem to shoot down the idea but like I said I have a bad taste from Union in the past.
More questions,I may have missed:
would everybody pay dues?
would the rep get his pay from each contract?
Could your provide a group insurance for union members if they pay dues?
^^ This could be possible since it would be a proffesion...
How would you set up out of country shows? who gets first shot?
And how would you decide who got the gig on a U.S. tour like the Monster Madness deals?
Unions are good and bad.
I worked for UPS during their stike way back about 10 yrs ago.
UPS offered us a 3k bonus for full timers and 1500 for part timers plus the 1.60 hr raise every contract year.
The "Teamsters" Union got us put out of work for a month and then when we came back most of the lower rank employees were layed off for about 3-4 months due to lack of work because everybody had switched carriers
On top of that we got NO bonus and only got a .60 raise every contract year.
IMO the union got greedy and fucked everybody below top ranks within their union.
That put a bad taste in my mouth from then on.
My Opinion:
Yeah you gotta stay on your game but I work in Management of a Construction Company and I see alot the Union employees being half assers and slackers. They won't do any more than what they absolutely have to do and bitch about every little thing like & act they are owed employement.
I've worked for 2 different Construction companies 1 union and 1 non union.
I see more productivity and more accomplishment come from the non union workers that usually make what the union guys make because they are willing to get off thier asses and do work.
In the long run what happen is you see less byers or owners looking for Union work because they know that they can get the same or better quality of work and the job done faster by using non union workers and companies. ABout the only contracts I see that request Union workers are government contracts and with how corrupt things are I very seriously doubt it's because of the Quality assurance.
The good:
Well I can see how it would benifit some of the riders that would rather have shows given to them and it would deffinately be an improvement of orginaztion. Like I said earlier, You would have to have 100% buy in from all the riders or it would be more of a pain in the *** than a step forward.
It's not a bad idea I appologize if I seem to shoot down the idea but like I said I have a bad taste from Union in the past.
More questions,I may have missed:
would everybody pay dues?
would the rep get his pay from each contract?
Could your provide a group insurance for union members if they pay dues?
^^ This could be possible since it would be a proffesion...
How would you set up out of country shows? who gets first shot?
And how would you decide who got the gig on a U.S. tour like the Monster Madness deals?
This is gonna be kinda like a union bro, the "real" aspect of a union wouldn't be there. Dues would be due each year to help pay for the upkeep of your rider portfolio and the website. so yes I guess dues would be a thing.
The rep will get paid a lil bit yea, I mean seriously who wants to drive all over the place, meet clients, sign documents, and waste all kinds of time so YOU can get paid and they can get a $300 fuel bill? Not me and not our reps!! They will bust their asses to get you paid, they deserve something!
As for the BIG out of country deals the customer would pick from the website the rider portfolios that they want! That makes it completely un-biased and gets the customer (your boss) the talent they are willing to pay for! They will pay for the freight, plane tix, hotels, rental cars, food, etc.. so we want to also be sure we aren't gonna have a bunch of "hotel trashing" dip ***** going over to represent our sport in a foreign country! That was kool back in the day but now the "rock star" style hotel trashing will come out of the riders pay!
Monster Army etc.. are riders which are contracted to Monster or another respective entity. Said entity bears right to aforementioned rider(s) unless aforementioned rider(s) are released from their contractual agreement.
In other words if they have a contract they STAY with who they are contracted with. Another concern was sponsors. Sponsors STAY with the rider(s) that they choose to sponsor! Being a member of the IBMP (International Brotherhood of Motorsports Professionals ...just an idea...) union don't guarantee you a sponsor, or pay... it only guarantees you a fair rate of pay for any show you DO through the union!
Insurance can be had, I will look into it but I'm almost 100% sure you are correct in the fact that you can form a group and get a group insurance rate. This will also be part of the "dues" you pay. I know that at 1st it will be complicated as ****, and people will be pissed that "its not working" but its gonna be kinda like Rogaine, you cant just towel it on and expect to be the ******* Gieco Caveman the next morning this **** takes time! So if you're willing to be patient it'll pay off, 1 step at a time!
The part about companies looking to other "non-union" riders etc, if you all get on the union rider set-up there will BE no "non-union" and if they want TALENT they are gonna have to PAY!
Basically when I say "union" I mean the UNION of all stuntriders to quit getting raped out of their skills! I mean if we form a real entity in the process great! I think that if we all jumped on the idea it will help out most if not all!
Again its just a thought that I had, I dunno if it'll ever happen but I'd like to see it happen, and all it takes is for a few to say "**** it lets do this"
IBMP FTW??
Thread Killer!!!
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,479
From: kosciusko, MS
Re: I have an idea, stunters unite to get paid?!
UFM???
"United Freestlye Motorcyclist"
ANyway I like your ideas man just throwin some hate out for the Unions
I think the details could be worked out through time:
Maybe the Rep get a flat rate of pay that is derived from the union dues then he could be rewarded an incintive for every show above par. THat gets him off his ***.
The riders could recieve a reward at the end of the year at the "UFM Convention" for being the most active and best representative of the Union.
If they are the most picked to do show by choice then they are doin somethin right and deserve something.
^^Also there could be different regions for smaller recognition (Just don't put FL or AZ in anybody elses region).
I'm sure that most every rider out there would be willing to pay group rate dues to have a decent health & accidental insurance plan if they don't already have one from their "real job".
ANyway, I don't have time to practice as much as I would like but count me in if I can help out and I would be more than willing to be a rep. I've kinda done that before since I backed off on my riding time.
HAVE YOU TALKED WITH THOMAS ABOUT THIS YET? You may get a little more buy in with his help
"United Freestlye Motorcyclist"
ANyway I like your ideas man just throwin some hate out for the Unions
I think the details could be worked out through time:
Maybe the Rep get a flat rate of pay that is derived from the union dues then he could be rewarded an incintive for every show above par. THat gets him off his ***.
The riders could recieve a reward at the end of the year at the "UFM Convention" for being the most active and best representative of the Union.
If they are the most picked to do show by choice then they are doin somethin right and deserve something.
^^Also there could be different regions for smaller recognition (Just don't put FL or AZ in anybody elses region
).I'm sure that most every rider out there would be willing to pay group rate dues to have a decent health & accidental insurance plan if they don't already have one from their "real job".
ANyway, I don't have time to practice as much as I would like but count me in if I can help out and I would be more than willing to be a rep. I've kinda done that before since I backed off on my riding time.
HAVE YOU TALKED WITH THOMAS ABOUT THIS YET? You may get a little more buy in with his help
