Drifting: Power pulses, tires, and cush drives
05-15-2016, 03:57 PM
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Join Date: May 2016
Location: Palo Alto, CA, USA
Age: 32
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Drifting: Power pulses, tires, and cush drives Hi everyone,
I just joined the forum. I've been curious about motorcycle drifting for a long time. I've had a range of experience around motorcycles, with a tiny bit of time off road, at the track, and a bit of time at the shop. I daily ride, but something is missing... the feeling of breaking traction.
My "drifting experience": I had a Yamaha XJ550 SECA with Bridgestone S-11 Spitfires, 90/90-19 in front and 100/90-18 front reverse mounted in the rear. I ran the tire pressure pretty high, generally in the 40s, although accidentally pumped them up to 90 and didn't blow them out.. Phew.
Those felt great. Very predictable in turns. In first gear, I could drift the rear pretty easily. Swingarm would flex greatly, which I figured out after I switched over to a box-section swingarm from a Fazer, if I'm not mistaken. Still drifted, but more felt like the whole bike was pivoting in a different way. When I say drifted, I mean I got the rear out, ten degrees or less from the rest of the bike. It was nothing really "drift" worthy or anything. Just fun. That's what I'm going for. Stock gearing on that bike.
I've also slid around in the dirt and grass on various bikes. But on the street, only a couple times in a couple configurations. Aside from sporadic sliding in the wet or on wet tarsnakes.
So I don't want to get into full stunting any time soon. I just want to break traction from time to time without killing myself. Might try full-on stunting some day in the farther future, though.
I've pretty much just got two bikes now: 1971 BMW R50/5 and a 1991 Honda Hawk GT. The Hawk makes pretty good power and slides easily on the dirt. The old airhead doesn't even make enough power to slide around on the dirt. It's kinda sad.
I get that there are a bunch of factors to breaking traction. One of them is the flywheel, which is partly why the R50/5 doesn't want to easily break traction. And it's just slow, slow slow.
I've been tempted to buy another XJ550 as it's a known working platform for me to slide on, but I wonder if I can replicate that, or write a general recipe for a decent bike that I can ride daily and slide on.
My Hawk has Bridgestone BT-45 bias plies in the stock sizes (110/80-17, 150/70-17). They are fresh, and really do not want to break traction. Have any of you drifted with BT-45s? I had an RD-350 at the track that slid all over the place with cold BT-45s, but it was more from lean angle and not from power.
I figure I need to change tires over if I want something more driftable. I'm debating towards some harder, more OEM-style bias plies, or radials in slightly off sizes, like maybe the Michelin Pilot Road 3s. Apparently, the Pilot Roads can slide, can they not?
Gearing is stock. I'd prefer not to change it if need be, but I'm open to doing something 10-20% lower, at most. The bike should be capable of 50hp at the wheel, but never measured. It has good mid-range torque. It's a super-narrow V-twin with decent steering lock to lock. Great bike to ride.
Some more questions:
Do any of you drift with a twin? The power pulses from a typical inline 4 (except MotoGP and the newer R1s, right?) are even and are probably most ideal for breaking traction. The big lump pulses from a twin are not as effective. I wonder if I'd just really need a big twin, or if the 650 is enough.
Have any of you setup solid cush drives? I wonder if the rubber makes it more difficult to break traction.
Do any of you have streetable drive ratios and still drift?
Have any of you drifted on bias plies, or older bikes in general?
Given that a gutless car can drift on hard-enough tires, it seems like at a certain point, I could just get a harder tire and it would slide, almost regardless of power. However, I do want a bike that's predictable and has decent limits, so I can still ride to Alice's without killing myself.
What do you feel about frame flex? Do you think a flexible frame can help make the bike more forgiving? The Hawk frame is pretty stiff (maybe nothing compared to the typical stunt bike?) and I wonder if that would make it a little "snappy", in some regards.
Do any of you have any favorite tires in the Hawk sizes? (110/70 or 110/80-17 -- 150/60, 150/70, or 160/60-17)
My cush drive rubbers are a little shot. I wonder if replacing those would help at all.
Thanks,
Teran
I just joined the forum. I've been curious about motorcycle drifting for a long time. I've had a range of experience around motorcycles, with a tiny bit of time off road, at the track, and a bit of time at the shop. I daily ride, but something is missing... the feeling of breaking traction.
My "drifting experience": I had a Yamaha XJ550 SECA with Bridgestone S-11 Spitfires, 90/90-19 in front and 100/90-18 front reverse mounted in the rear. I ran the tire pressure pretty high, generally in the 40s, although accidentally pumped them up to 90 and didn't blow them out.. Phew.
Those felt great. Very predictable in turns. In first gear, I could drift the rear pretty easily. Swingarm would flex greatly, which I figured out after I switched over to a box-section swingarm from a Fazer, if I'm not mistaken. Still drifted, but more felt like the whole bike was pivoting in a different way. When I say drifted, I mean I got the rear out, ten degrees or less from the rest of the bike. It was nothing really "drift" worthy or anything. Just fun. That's what I'm going for. Stock gearing on that bike.
I've also slid around in the dirt and grass on various bikes. But on the street, only a couple times in a couple configurations. Aside from sporadic sliding in the wet or on wet tarsnakes.
So I don't want to get into full stunting any time soon. I just want to break traction from time to time without killing myself. Might try full-on stunting some day in the farther future, though.
I've pretty much just got two bikes now: 1971 BMW R50/5 and a 1991 Honda Hawk GT. The Hawk makes pretty good power and slides easily on the dirt. The old airhead doesn't even make enough power to slide around on the dirt. It's kinda sad.
I get that there are a bunch of factors to breaking traction. One of them is the flywheel, which is partly why the R50/5 doesn't want to easily break traction. And it's just slow, slow slow.
I've been tempted to buy another XJ550 as it's a known working platform for me to slide on, but I wonder if I can replicate that, or write a general recipe for a decent bike that I can ride daily and slide on.
My Hawk has Bridgestone BT-45 bias plies in the stock sizes (110/80-17, 150/70-17). They are fresh, and really do not want to break traction. Have any of you drifted with BT-45s? I had an RD-350 at the track that slid all over the place with cold BT-45s, but it was more from lean angle and not from power.
I figure I need to change tires over if I want something more driftable. I'm debating towards some harder, more OEM-style bias plies, or radials in slightly off sizes, like maybe the Michelin Pilot Road 3s. Apparently, the Pilot Roads can slide, can they not?
Gearing is stock. I'd prefer not to change it if need be, but I'm open to doing something 10-20% lower, at most. The bike should be capable of 50hp at the wheel, but never measured. It has good mid-range torque. It's a super-narrow V-twin with decent steering lock to lock. Great bike to ride.
Some more questions:
Do any of you drift with a twin? The power pulses from a typical inline 4 (except MotoGP and the newer R1s, right?) are even and are probably most ideal for breaking traction. The big lump pulses from a twin are not as effective. I wonder if I'd just really need a big twin, or if the 650 is enough.
Have any of you setup solid cush drives? I wonder if the rubber makes it more difficult to break traction.
Do any of you have streetable drive ratios and still drift?
Have any of you drifted on bias plies, or older bikes in general?
Given that a gutless car can drift on hard-enough tires, it seems like at a certain point, I could just get a harder tire and it would slide, almost regardless of power. However, I do want a bike that's predictable and has decent limits, so I can still ride to Alice's without killing myself.
What do you feel about frame flex? Do you think a flexible frame can help make the bike more forgiving? The Hawk frame is pretty stiff (maybe nothing compared to the typical stunt bike?) and I wonder if that would make it a little "snappy", in some regards.
Do any of you have any favorite tires in the Hawk sizes? (110/70 or 110/80-17 -- 150/60, 150/70, or 160/60-17)
My cush drive rubbers are a little shot. I wonder if replacing those would help at all.
Thanks,
Teran
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