this disgusts me, lets see who gets offended?!?!
05-12-2003, 12:32 PM
#41
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Posts: n/a
Originally posted by Brian_C6
I disagree!!
Factory Sponsorships have their hands in....
1. Skateboarding - boards break all the time. It also promotes illegal / dangerous activity for civilians.
2. NASCAR - Cars are garbage after every race & rebuilt.... nevermind if they crash. It also promotes illegal / dangerous activity for civilians.
3. Motorcycle Racing - Bikes are garbage after every race & rebuilt.... nevermind if they crash. It also promotes illegal / dangerous activity for civilians.
4. Motocross Racing - Bikes are garbage after every race & rebuilt.... nevermind if they crash. It also promotes illegal / dangerous activity for civilians.
5. Freesyle MX - Bikes are garbage after every event & rebuilt.... nevermind if they crash. It also promotes illegal / dangerous activity for civilians.
There are tons of sports that degrade product and are still backed by the manufacture. Look at Craig Jones.... he seems to be doing fine w/ Buell. You must remember that it's all about exposure....Good or Bad.
If the sport is attracting people and making money, they back it. What is the cost of 1 bike per show? So they give the rider a brand new bike for every show he does..... 1 bike = $5K. $5K worth of exposure per show = endless $$$$$$$$ ESPECIALLY if the show has 20K people... all who will potentially buy the product and make them tons of $$$$$$
I'm not sure who you talked to but it's only a matter of time before the "big 4" steps in. Right now the $5K isn't worth it. When it is.... in they come!!
Lata,
Bri
PS. Freestyle Streetbike = NO MONEY (as of 5-12-03)
I disagree!!
Factory Sponsorships have their hands in....
1. Skateboarding - boards break all the time. It also promotes illegal / dangerous activity for civilians.
2. NASCAR - Cars are garbage after every race & rebuilt.... nevermind if they crash. It also promotes illegal / dangerous activity for civilians.
3. Motorcycle Racing - Bikes are garbage after every race & rebuilt.... nevermind if they crash. It also promotes illegal / dangerous activity for civilians.
4. Motocross Racing - Bikes are garbage after every race & rebuilt.... nevermind if they crash. It also promotes illegal / dangerous activity for civilians.
5. Freesyle MX - Bikes are garbage after every event & rebuilt.... nevermind if they crash. It also promotes illegal / dangerous activity for civilians.
There are tons of sports that degrade product and are still backed by the manufacture. Look at Craig Jones.... he seems to be doing fine w/ Buell. You must remember that it's all about exposure....Good or Bad.
If the sport is attracting people and making money, they back it. What is the cost of 1 bike per show? So they give the rider a brand new bike for every show he does..... 1 bike = $5K. $5K worth of exposure per show = endless $$$$$$$$ ESPECIALLY if the show has 20K people... all who will potentially buy the product and make them tons of $$$$$$
I'm not sure who you talked to but it's only a matter of time before the "big 4" steps in. Right now the $5K isn't worth it. When it is.... in they come!!
Lata,
Bri
PS. Freestyle Streetbike = NO MONEY (as of 5-12-03)
05-12-2003, 02:50 PM
#43
I Enjoy Posting At StuntLife!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oswego, IL
Posts: 1,613
Originally posted by NickDavid
thomas..i feel the exact same way. thats why i am done with this industry. Tired of the bullshit and lack of real support. And for the people who get offended by what you say...well...fuuuck em. Ya dont really need em anyway.
Gimme a call bro, it's been a while since we bs'ed...
lata
Nick
thomas..i feel the exact same way. thats why i am done with this industry. Tired of the bullshit and lack of real support. And for the people who get offended by what you say...well...fuuuck em. Ya dont really need em anyway.
Gimme a call bro, it's been a while since we bs'ed...
lata
Nick
05-12-2003, 04:01 PM
#44
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OK LET ME EXPLAIN THIS THE EASIEST WAY POSSIBLE AND IF YOU STILL DONT GET WHAT THE **** IM SAYING FEEL FREE TO CALL ME
I do **** for free and very cheaply all the time.... but I make damn sure it doesnt affect any other team in anyway
IF WE DO NOT GIVE COMPANIES, PROMOTORS OR WHOEVER A CHANCE TO LOWBALL US THEN IT WONT HAPPEN
Jimmy you are right, business is business alright and they want to get at us as cheap as possible... remember that!! They want to give us the least possible that they can
WHY SHOULD ANYONE PAY ANY OF US ANY MONEY WHEN HALF OF YALL WILL DO IT FOR FREE????
THE MORE THEY GET AWAY WITH IT, THE LONGER ITS GOING TO HAPPEN AND ALL YOU ARE DOING IS HURTING THE CHANCES OF THE TOP TEAMS TO MAKE IT BIG AND TAKING ALL OF US WITH THEM
I wouldnt question my business knowledge..... and as far as this thread is concerned it isnt to benefit other businesses... its to benefit the teams... large and small
whats so hard to understand when I say "Dont sell yourself short?"
I know XXX does shows at moroso....if moroso asks me to do a show i should say no... or ask kyle what he charges and make damn sure I tell moroso the same exact ****ing price
I know that alpinestars supports XXX, if Corrine calls me wanting to sponsor me, you can bet im gonna call kyle and talk with him about it to make sure i dont undercut him or ask for less than i could possibly get
I know that Speedrag sponsored Jason Britton and Dan Jackson in the beginning, then at some point they decided to send every team on stuntlife an email giving them 50% off on clothing in return for a sponsorship.....now at this point I would decline the sponsorship for 2 reasons.... it undercuts and is disrespectful to Dan and Jason, and its a discount on something I would not buy regardless. Like a beanie baby
I would rather Dan and Jason get paid cash and get free product while the rest of us get nothing than all of us have a 50% discount
I might as well say im sponsored by 10 different shops cuz I get discounts everywhere. Yeah when someone asks me where to shop at etc. I tell them the shop closest to them that I deal with....
but as far as me putting stickers on my bike and links on my website and all that BS.... a 50% discount dont cut the mustard
well **** since i get discounts at shops that sell every part or gear I may ever need.... does that mean I am sponsored by every company you can name??
Political Correctness isnt my fortay......Squirrel made my point sound much more graceful....
Dont sell yourself short
I do **** for free and very cheaply all the time.... but I make damn sure it doesnt affect any other team in anyway
IF WE DO NOT GIVE COMPANIES, PROMOTORS OR WHOEVER A CHANCE TO LOWBALL US THEN IT WONT HAPPEN
Jimmy you are right, business is business alright and they want to get at us as cheap as possible... remember that!! They want to give us the least possible that they can
WHY SHOULD ANYONE PAY ANY OF US ANY MONEY WHEN HALF OF YALL WILL DO IT FOR FREE????
THE MORE THEY GET AWAY WITH IT, THE LONGER ITS GOING TO HAPPEN AND ALL YOU ARE DOING IS HURTING THE CHANCES OF THE TOP TEAMS TO MAKE IT BIG AND TAKING ALL OF US WITH THEM
I wouldnt question my business knowledge..... and as far as this thread is concerned it isnt to benefit other businesses... its to benefit the teams... large and small
whats so hard to understand when I say "Dont sell yourself short?"
I know XXX does shows at moroso....if moroso asks me to do a show i should say no... or ask kyle what he charges and make damn sure I tell moroso the same exact ****ing price
I know that alpinestars supports XXX, if Corrine calls me wanting to sponsor me, you can bet im gonna call kyle and talk with him about it to make sure i dont undercut him or ask for less than i could possibly get
I know that Speedrag sponsored Jason Britton and Dan Jackson in the beginning, then at some point they decided to send every team on stuntlife an email giving them 50% off on clothing in return for a sponsorship.....now at this point I would decline the sponsorship for 2 reasons.... it undercuts and is disrespectful to Dan and Jason, and its a discount on something I would not buy regardless. Like a beanie baby
I would rather Dan and Jason get paid cash and get free product while the rest of us get nothing than all of us have a 50% discount
I might as well say im sponsored by 10 different shops cuz I get discounts everywhere. Yeah when someone asks me where to shop at etc. I tell them the shop closest to them that I deal with....
but as far as me putting stickers on my bike and links on my website and all that BS.... a 50% discount dont cut the mustard
well **** since i get discounts at shops that sell every part or gear I may ever need.... does that mean I am sponsored by every company you can name??
Political Correctness isnt my fortay......Squirrel made my point sound much more graceful....
Dont sell yourself short
05-12-2003, 04:11 PM
#45
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: wherever the $$$ is
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I love debates when Brian gets involved!!
At what point did I say anything about it endorsing dangerous activities to civillians??
and I didnt say it will never happen, I just reiterated what was said to me from people at Suzuki and Honda... not local dealers.... big time people
They know what makes certain things break on each different bikes, the aforementioned headlights on 2000 GSXR'S
cracked frames on the bends of zx6r's
and other crazy things that can happen to bikes that have no indication of misuse
if you dont think you can crack a frame without ever wrecking a bike, go get a zx6r always in the same exact place
At what point did I say anything about it endorsing dangerous activities to civillians??
and I didnt say it will never happen, I just reiterated what was said to me from people at Suzuki and Honda... not local dealers.... big time people
They know what makes certain things break on each different bikes, the aforementioned headlights on 2000 GSXR'S
cracked frames on the bends of zx6r's
and other crazy things that can happen to bikes that have no indication of misuse
if you dont think you can crack a frame without ever wrecking a bike, go get a zx6r always in the same exact place
05-12-2003, 05:22 PM
#48
www.Redline-Xtreme.com
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Age: 46
Posts: 3,195
Originally posted by DSOG Thomas
I do **** for free and very cheaply all the time.... but I make damn sure it doesnt affect any other team in anyway
Jimmy you are right, business is business alright and they want to get at us as cheap as possible... remember that!! They want to give us the least possible that they can
I wouldnt question my business knowledge..... and as far as this thread is concerned it isnt to benefit other businesses... its to benefit the teams... large and small
whats so hard to understand when I say "Dont sell yourself short?"
I know XXX does shows at moroso....if moroso asks me to do a show i should say no... or ask kyle what he charges and make damn sure I tell moroso the same exact ****ing price
I know that alpinestars supports XXX, if Corrine calls me wanting to sponsor me, you can bet im gonna call kyle and talk with him about it to make sure i dont undercut him or ask for less than i could possibly get
I know that Speedrag sponsored Jason Britton and Dan Jackson in the beginning, then at some point they decided to send every team on stuntlife an email giving them 50% off on clothing in return for a sponsorship.....now at this point I would decline the sponsorship for 2 reasons.... it undercuts and is disrespectful to Dan and Jason, and its a discount on something I would not buy regardless. Like a beanie baby
I would rather Dan and Jason get paid cash and get free product while the rest of us get nothing than all of us have a 50% discount
I might as well say im sponsored by 10 different shops cuz I get discounts everywhere. Yeah when someone asks me where to shop at etc. I tell them the shop closest to them that I deal with....
but as far as me putting stickers on my bike and links on my website and all that BS.... a 50% discount dont cut the mustard
well **** since i get discounts at shops that sell every part or gear I may ever need.... does that mean I am sponsored by every company you can name??
Dont sell yourself short
I do **** for free and very cheaply all the time.... but I make damn sure it doesnt affect any other team in anyway
Jimmy you are right, business is business alright and they want to get at us as cheap as possible... remember that!! They want to give us the least possible that they can
I wouldnt question my business knowledge..... and as far as this thread is concerned it isnt to benefit other businesses... its to benefit the teams... large and small
whats so hard to understand when I say "Dont sell yourself short?"
I know XXX does shows at moroso....if moroso asks me to do a show i should say no... or ask kyle what he charges and make damn sure I tell moroso the same exact ****ing price
I know that alpinestars supports XXX, if Corrine calls me wanting to sponsor me, you can bet im gonna call kyle and talk with him about it to make sure i dont undercut him or ask for less than i could possibly get
I know that Speedrag sponsored Jason Britton and Dan Jackson in the beginning, then at some point they decided to send every team on stuntlife an email giving them 50% off on clothing in return for a sponsorship.....now at this point I would decline the sponsorship for 2 reasons.... it undercuts and is disrespectful to Dan and Jason, and its a discount on something I would not buy regardless. Like a beanie baby
I would rather Dan and Jason get paid cash and get free product while the rest of us get nothing than all of us have a 50% discount
I might as well say im sponsored by 10 different shops cuz I get discounts everywhere. Yeah when someone asks me where to shop at etc. I tell them the shop closest to them that I deal with....
but as far as me putting stickers on my bike and links on my website and all that BS.... a 50% discount dont cut the mustard
well **** since i get discounts at shops that sell every part or gear I may ever need.... does that mean I am sponsored by every company you can name??
Dont sell yourself short
There are more than 200 teams out there now, so no matter what some teams will get under cut. It is the facts of REALITY. Even if you stopped it here there is no way to stop the other 100+ teams that are not on this board. No matter what the top teams in this sport will always come out on the top. If they are getting under cut now by some teams, they will be the ones to prosper once this sport does go mainstream. It's like walking into Sears and going with Brand X or going with the Craftsman. Obviously you will go with the Craftsman based on Name recognition and durability.
As far as being sponsored by 10 different companies. This is fine as long as it is not a "Conflict of Interest". And you would know this as you have a great business background. The whole show example would go under the RESPECT category. Sure you can Under cut another team by doing shows cheaper. But would it really be worth it to loose the respect from that team and MANY others...NO.
It just seems like your approach is to sell the "Up and Coming" teams short just so the top teams can be the ones to prosper.?. Is this correct? If not, how do you propose new temas make it to the top?
05-12-2003, 05:26 PM
#49
www.purebredriders.com
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: FL.
Posts: 556
is not gettin a good luck or a have fun kinda like when some one takes another stunters bike (weather good or bad) and loopes it and then thinks its funny and the bikes still not all the way fixed
is that how all stunters should stick together to make this a well respected sport
is that how all stunters should stick together to make this a well respected sport
05-12-2003, 06:10 PM
#50
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Join Date: Sep 2002
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tell me if i am misunderstanding you but this is how i see it...
my version....
"Dont sell yourself short when dealing with promotors or sponsors, because you also may be selling another team short too!"
Jimmys version....not a direct quote
Whenever you do something, respect yourselves and have respect for the other teams that could be directly or indirectly involved
...sorry but to me both of these comments mean the same thing!!
yeah people are going to get undercut by one of the 200 teams
but if noone ever says its wrong its going to happen more often
so i decided I would be the bad guy and say something about it since it has came up in conversations with a few people over the past few months
now that I have said something, the 100 teams here on stuntlife just might ask for a few extra hundred dollars to do a show, or get a little more from sponsors, or call one of the top teams and ask for advice on dealing with sponsors or anything that just isnt "how to do a circle wheelie"
which in the end is better for all of us
You say I am trying to sell the up and coming teams short when actually I am trying to tell them to make more money
wheres the misunderstanding at??
I realize the top teams are going to make it regardless.... so why would I give a rats *** to even start this thread unless I was trying to help out everyone
If a sponsor wants to get with an up and coming team and they offer a BS deal to every team and we all say No then they are going to pick one of the teams and give them money
If a promotor wants to do a stunt show and book a team for $200 and we all tell him no, then he is going to have to pay the asking price to one of the teams
If I talked to a sponsor and they said "hey we narrowed it down to you guys and redline extreme, they want $2000, will you do it for $1000?" I would say no I want $2000 also, and then let them pick which team fits thier demographics better
(Not Selling you or me short/ Having respect for U guys) same thing just said differently
my version....
"Dont sell yourself short when dealing with promotors or sponsors, because you also may be selling another team short too!"
Jimmys version....not a direct quote
Whenever you do something, respect yourselves and have respect for the other teams that could be directly or indirectly involved
...sorry but to me both of these comments mean the same thing!!
yeah people are going to get undercut by one of the 200 teams
but if noone ever says its wrong its going to happen more often
so i decided I would be the bad guy and say something about it since it has came up in conversations with a few people over the past few months
now that I have said something, the 100 teams here on stuntlife just might ask for a few extra hundred dollars to do a show, or get a little more from sponsors, or call one of the top teams and ask for advice on dealing with sponsors or anything that just isnt "how to do a circle wheelie"
which in the end is better for all of us
You say I am trying to sell the up and coming teams short when actually I am trying to tell them to make more money
wheres the misunderstanding at??
I realize the top teams are going to make it regardless.... so why would I give a rats *** to even start this thread unless I was trying to help out everyone
If a sponsor wants to get with an up and coming team and they offer a BS deal to every team and we all say No then they are going to pick one of the teams and give them money
If a promotor wants to do a stunt show and book a team for $200 and we all tell him no, then he is going to have to pay the asking price to one of the teams
If I talked to a sponsor and they said "hey we narrowed it down to you guys and redline extreme, they want $2000, will you do it for $1000?" I would say no I want $2000 also, and then let them pick which team fits thier demographics better
(Not Selling you or me short/ Having respect for U guys) same thing just said differently
05-12-2003, 06:32 PM
#51
www.krazywhiteboys.com
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Jim Thorpe, Pa
Age: 47
Posts: 3,273
Originally posted by DSOG Thomas
isnt it funny how the guys you never heard of are the ones who follow pauly up and talk about factory rides... all the while dreaming about the Xgames-get real
isnt it funny how the guys you never heard of are the ones who follow pauly up and talk about factory rides... all the while dreaming about the Xgames-get real
You repeat yourself a couple dozen times proclaiming - "DON'T SELL YOURSELF SHORT!!!" But when you hear from me, you know the one that no one has heard of before, that this sport is going to BLOW UP and be an event in some kind of big money televised sport - you tell me to get real!!!
Why don't you get real??? Are you limiting where this sport will be a year from now??? What about 5 years from now???
You have no ****ing clue where the sport will be!!!
But everything I just read, ALL THE POSTS FROM YOU ON THIS TOPIC, is about not selling yourself short. By telling me to "get real" - YOU ARE SELLING YOURSELF SHORT!!!
If I'm not thinking about factory rides than I'm selling myself short! If you are not thinking about factory rides than you are a fool.
And no it's not like I hang on Pauly's every word. I just happened to read his article. Just like I did here. I also said that I did not research what he was saying.
All that I am saying is that you have some good points. SOME GOOD POINTS, not all.
It makes no sense to me that your biggest thoughts for "OUR" sport is not at the top.
Does it really matter that no one really heard of us yet? No it doesn't, because they will. ------------------------------
To everybody,
We as the stunt community have no reason not to respect our fellow stunters. Undercutting the other stunt teams will only lead to lower pay for us and shitty fellings towards others. Don't take less than you deserve. Check out what you are being offered......it might not be as good as you think.
Laterz, KW Rich
Last edited by KrazyWhite Rich; 05-12-2003 at 06:37 PM.
05-12-2003, 06:55 PM
#52
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: wherever the $$$ is
Posts: 6,187
Rich, I respect that....but understand that a lot of "unknowns" have followed that same path that you started on in your reply about the XSBA.....
practice, make friends, seek the truth and get respect
Your last paragraph is what this whole thread was intended to be about... Very well said
practice, make friends, seek the truth and get respect
Your last paragraph is what this whole thread was intended to be about... Very well said
Last edited by DSOG Thomas; 05-12-2003 at 06:59 PM.
05-12-2003, 06:55 PM
#53
www.Redline-Xtreme.com
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Age: 46
Posts: 3,195
I am really not trying to be an *** Thomas. I am sure we mean the same thing, but have different ways of expressing it. I was just trying to give the view point of our sponsors. I now I am not going to Diss our sponsors or potential sponsors on a public message board.
All it will take is to get your foot in the right door and work with that company to make the appropriate changes
.
All it will take is to get your foot in the right door and work with that company to make the appropriate changes
. 
05-12-2003, 07:47 PM
#57
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Posts: n/a
ummmmmmmmmm as far as what i have to say (**** i didnt think anybody cared????) well it kinda goes like this.............make sure when u set up sponosorships for yer team that are for things like discounts and apparel that u do it with sort of a closed end deal to protect yerself...................ill give u a scenario to protray what im sayin (usindsog as an example team cuz we all know they aint gonna git sponsors till thomas learns to scrape somethin besides a dinner plate at the ground round! )
dsog gets approached by freestyle sportbike gear for a sponsoring proposal (or vice versa in this example it doesnt matter who approaches who) f.s.b.g wants to give free apparel to all memebers of dsog in exchange for dsog to spread the word to others in the community about f.s.b.g. and their gear. Now dosg knows that this is an up and coming company with growing room and f.s.b.g. knows the same of the dsog crew and their riding potential. So dsog should enter an agreement that kinda goes like this (in my opinion) i would think it would be in the best interest for both parties to enter a 2 yr sponsorship deal, that has a renegotiation clause in it to renegotiate what each side gets from the sponsorship agreement after the end of the first season (this covers dsog from being dropped at the end of the year when they go back to the sponsor and present a new proposal in which they now gain more from the sponsor monetarily due to the fact that they have shown how they will positivly represent the sponsor in the prior season. It also gives dsog a chance to offer the sponsor a larger "bang for their buck" in turn for upping the sponsor anty!). This way basically dsog has the opportunity to walk away from the table with (at minimum)the same deal as the year before but frees them up to gain more from a sponsor that already knows what there worth, abilities, and willingness to promote already are.
ok there are flaws to this theory i know and to be honest i really cant get into detail here on how and why this works (most should be able to see enough of the point im gettin at to understand how this could or couldnt work for them)
basically like stated before - use lower value deals now all u want, just make sure they are with companies that will ride this out with u and be there next year ready to up the anty when u are ready to up yer end of the deal promotionlally!
lastly remeber one rule about sponsorship - sponsors are purchasing something from u there is no if,ands,or buts about it. They are purchasing advertising. Remeber that when u rep yer sponsors. If one sponsor offers u $100 and another offers u $1000 just keep that in mind when u represent them and the time u spend representing them and u will not only keep ur high dollar sponsors but also have something to show to yer lower dollar sponsors as in what they could gain if they were to up they ante! Basically put yerself in a sponsors shoes...........if yer in a deli and u pay 5 dollars for the same sandwich the guy in front of u paid 1 dollar for u would be pissed right? well thats how a sponor would feel also!
sorry so long and not well put together but u can probably get my point!
good luck to all in yer endeveaours !
lata
llama
lobster
leavin!!!
)dsog gets approached by freestyle sportbike gear for a sponsoring proposal (or vice versa in this example it doesnt matter who approaches who) f.s.b.g wants to give free apparel to all memebers of dsog in exchange for dsog to spread the word to others in the community about f.s.b.g. and their gear. Now dosg knows that this is an up and coming company with growing room and f.s.b.g. knows the same of the dsog crew and their riding potential. So dsog should enter an agreement that kinda goes like this (in my opinion) i would think it would be in the best interest for both parties to enter a 2 yr sponsorship deal, that has a renegotiation clause in it to renegotiate what each side gets from the sponsorship agreement after the end of the first season (this covers dsog from being dropped at the end of the year when they go back to the sponsor and present a new proposal in which they now gain more from the sponsor monetarily due to the fact that they have shown how they will positivly represent the sponsor in the prior season. It also gives dsog a chance to offer the sponsor a larger "bang for their buck" in turn for upping the sponsor anty!). This way basically dsog has the opportunity to walk away from the table with (at minimum)the same deal as the year before but frees them up to gain more from a sponsor that already knows what there worth, abilities, and willingness to promote already are.
ok there are flaws to this theory i know and to be honest i really cant get into detail here on how and why this works (most should be able to see enough of the point im gettin at to understand how this could or couldnt work for them)
basically like stated before - use lower value deals now all u want, just make sure they are with companies that will ride this out with u and be there next year ready to up the anty when u are ready to up yer end of the deal promotionlally!
lastly remeber one rule about sponsorship - sponsors are purchasing something from u there is no if,ands,or buts about it. They are purchasing advertising. Remeber that when u rep yer sponsors. If one sponsor offers u $100 and another offers u $1000 just keep that in mind when u represent them and the time u spend representing them and u will not only keep ur high dollar sponsors but also have something to show to yer lower dollar sponsors as in what they could gain if they were to up they ante! Basically put yerself in a sponsors shoes...........if yer in a deli and u pay 5 dollars for the same sandwich the guy in front of u paid 1 dollar for u would be pissed right? well thats how a sponor would feel also!
sorry so long and not well put together but u can probably get my point!
good luck to all in yer endeveaours !
lata
llama
lobster
leavin!!!
05-12-2003, 08:50 PM
#60
Creater/Founder
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: OKC, OK
Age: 48
Posts: 8,508
Originally posted by Rodg C.C.
EXAMPLE: can you show a crowd at a hooters resturant a fast wheelie in the parking lot. no, you can't. HOWEVER, some of us proffesionals could roll a nth or whip some circles around.
EXAMPLE: can you show a crowd at a hooters resturant a fast wheelie in the parking lot. no, you can't. HOWEVER, some of us proffesionals could roll a nth or whip some circles around.
