this disgusts me, lets see who gets offended?!?!
 

I dont even know how to get into this in a politically correct manner so as always i am just going to ass up and put my foot in my mouth

I have been thinking about it for a while now and discussed it with a few peopel we all know and love.....so i am going to say something before this year gets in full swing

we are busting our asses, our bikes and our bones out here trying to make a living doing what we love.

DO NOT SETTLE FOR BS, dont take a "sponsorship deal" for just discounts on products you dont need anyways. Dont do shows in unsafe environments for shady promotors for a little chump change. Dont show all types of love for magazines that print shit that is 3 years old and has been printed twice already using pictures from 2000....dont support local wheelie contests unelss they are paying cash.... I know its your hometown and you want to show that you are the shit but it aint worth some ****ing T-shirt and trophy

I guess what I am trying to say is that there is a lot of stuff going on and we are growing rapidly every day......why should we represent companies that are not really giving back... and no a 50% discount is not giving back... you are still spending money on something you probably wouldnt have bought unless that "sponsor" contacted you!!!

gas/tires/brakes/levers all costs money, discounts on stuff like that is straight, these things get used/broken all the time!!!!

free bodywork is nice, free brake pads, anything you can use and get for free or at a discount... go ahead!!

yeah I know you are going to practice regardless... but dont be a main attraction at the local dragstrip/show unless you are getting paid, or the dragstrip owner lets you practice whenever

look at all the pictures we get in magazines/websites all the time.... at this point half of us have been on TV think about all the products we wear and we advertise for free

What national company really really sponsors someone with money??? I know a few can anyone else name any?? and who are the riders???

local companies??... ok do what you want... we are sponsored by some shops and a vinyl cutting place locally, they dont give us much monetarily but it is good to get discounts on bike parts and stickers etc. Stuff you are actually going to break or run out of

but as far as some nationwide companies.... they have money... do not claim you are sponsored by them just because they sent you a pair of gloves, or they give you a 50% discount YOU ARE SELLING YOURSELF SHORT.... and by doing that you are selling the rest of us short too!!!!

yeah I know it feels cool to say "we are sponsored by so and so" but joe jim and billy are "sponsored" by the same company!!!
its like this... if you settle for nothing now... thats all you are ever going to get is nothing.... you tell them what you want and if they say no then ride out.... then when 2004 comes and they come asking again, I bet they will want to pay then

Do not let these promotors/sponsors/magazines get away with using you!!!!!

we are valuable, every inch of space on our bodies/bikes/helmets is worth money!!!
our skills are worth money, our websites are worth money!!!

stop giving it away for free.... its like a freaking rat race and we are causing it ourselves.... if you know someone who wants to pay for a stuntshow, but its 500 miles away and you wont make any money doing it with travel expenses, call someone in that area to do it, dont be scared to hook up fellow riders, I do it all the time!!! it is a revolving door!!

we all have certain people who were there from the beginning, thats ok, most of these companies/promotors are local and specific to just one team.

what if mountain dew said we will give you all the sodas you can drink for .25 a can? would you walk around claiming to be sponsored by Mt Dew???? I would present them an offer in writing, professionally done that asked for cash.... if they said no well so what!!! I dont even like freaking MT DEW!!!!!

I bet half of you would accept the deal.... while some exec at Mt Dew licks his chops, because instead of him having to give one team 20k and mad product for the year, he just got 10 teams for free

all it is going to take is for 1 person to get a heavy heavy sponsorship and then we will all gain sponsors that pay cash.... so dont go accepting a bum deal, because you never know who you are undercutting!!!!

what happens when someone actually gets cash money from Mt dew?? then mello yellow gets jealous and sponsors someone else... then sobe says "oh hell no!" and picks up someone and on and on until guess what? every competing freestyle street rider has a major cash sponsor

dont get pimped by these people.... pimp them!

until then.... DSOG-4-Life sponsored by no one!!!!

oh and dont be scared to buy some videos from all the teams at wholesale and sell them to your local shops!!!!!!!!!! its an easy way to make money and build relationships with your local dealerships

thomas..i feel the exact same way. thats why i am done with this industry. Tired of the bullshit and lack of real support. And for the people who get offended by what you say...well...fuuuck em. Ya dont really need em anyway.
Gimme a call bro, it's been a while since we bs'ed...

lata
Nick

word.

i think he's trying to say...

" ALL YOU ****iNG CUPCAKES NEED TO TURN IN YOUR 150 HP BIKES AND GET OFF THE FREEWAYS AND PUBLIC ROADS. YOU'RE RUINING WHAT COULD POTENTIALLY BE THE NEXT FMX. ALL BECAUSE YOU AND YOUR SALLY FRIENDS CAN LIFT A POWER WHEELIE ON A 400lb BIKE W/ 150hp. IF YOU THINK STUNT RIDING IS SO COOL SUPPORT IT, INSTEAD OF TRYING TO MAKE SOMETHING (usaually money) FOR YOURSELVES. CUZ LETS FACE IT, YOUR NOT MAKING ANY MONEY, JUST RUINING ANY CHANCE THE TALENTED PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE AT LANDING A SPONSORSHIP FROM A REAL COMPANY..."

sorry, don't know where that came from.

SUPPORT THIS SPORT, don't try capitalizing off it.

r

note: I know a lot of the dedicated users of this board know where they stand. But you still need to relay this message to your local riders and mislead friends. Sponsors will never get involved unless they can see that the sport is progressing into one that is controlled and entertaining at the same time.


EXAMPLE: can you show a crowd at a hooters resturant a fast wheelie in the parking lot. no, you can't. HOWEVER, some of us proffesionals could roll a nth or whip some circles around. But since the Extreme Rocket Riderz suggested there dumbass idea first, we come along and offer our show and it's not even considered.

i kinda agree...but then again i do this stuff for me. it gives me a rush and it just plain fun to try to better myself.

I agree a little bit, but not all the way, but for get that part about people that power wheelie, not being a stunter! How the f### do you think you start out. No one started doing 12 first, then moved on. I think any group or team, is good. But I see not just taking stupid bum shit, like Mt. Dew.

That has nothin to do with stuntin. But like discounted bike parts, that cool. Because if it only 25% off, that money the little groups can save and buy other stuff. And that the main think trying to fund you hobby.

I mean we got a page, and shit. And I know there probly better people out there without one. But like Binder929rr said. I do this shit for myself, to show what can be done on these bikes. And to get people into it. So that they are willing to go to shows. And that help the public, get involved.

But it all dosn't matter, because if you don't do big shows all around the states, you never going to get a full ride. That why groups sell videos. And who do you think buys them, the little guys like me! That want to learn to do shit like them. So really it's other stunters, that pay for the big groups.

And like starboyz, the give back. They got a forum, they hooked us up with a free spot. To help us get started, and to move up the ladder!

But that just my :2cents

:monkey :flamed

:jester

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Radical Jester [/i]
[B] for get that part about people that power wheelie, not being a stunter! [/B][/QUOTE]

your not a stunter if you can power wheelie. < period

that's great if you want to get involved in riding or participating. but right now there is now ladder to climb up because of fact that there is a stunt team in every town from here to australia that won't take a seat to those more qualified. they are TRYING to sell there image and portraying that they are the same as xXx or the boyz.

and i would suggest learning/trying 12's before 100 mph highway wheelies. lots safer, looks better, AND KEEPS STUNTING OUT OF TRAFFIC!!!

Tom, you make some good points, but what is clear channel (a multil million dollar company) or the XSBA doing for the riders???? Look at how the attendence as far as riders is concerned with these competitions. Its mostly regional... they can't provide to help with some traveling expenses???


I can't get impact or xfactor to carry our new video!!! impact supposedly sponsors the xsba and doesn't even carry the 110% video?? WTF!!! These places don't care about the sport, and you can't convince me otherwise....

If I can't get someone to get me parts like a company, I either pay for them or see if someone I know has extra's... but if I have to pay, do you want me to pay full price??

As far as video's and what not, I couldn't agree with you more, I am always trying to trade with groups, b/c my local shops would rather deal with me then impact or xfactor!!!


RODG CC - I agree with you that practice and what not should be in a semi controled and safe place, but when your starting out, you don't know the spots and most of the time your riding with your friends on the street.... even with bmx, skateboarding, and motocross (professional sports now) your gonna see ppl in public places doing tricks and what not illegally... not everyone has easy access to warehouses. For example, we have gotten kicked out of plenty. We have to practice on a road that has pot holes, its wavy and is not very wide now... that's just the way it it over here... ant had to move out of state to find a good spot.. LOL

Radical Jester - I know ppl who got on the bike for the first time and tried rocking twelves off the start.. His name is Nick Vaughan... he is 17 and has been riding for 11 months and is now doing circles!!!!!

you cant promote a new sport by demanding to get paid for an exhibition. If the local dragstrip asks you to do a show to help them promote one of their events do it and be happy. Thats how a potential sponser is going to notice you. I got nothin but respect for you Thomas but you cant tell these people to be all about the money in a sport that doesnt really exist yet, when 97% of them will never become pros if it gets to that level. (and thats not a put down folks, its the truth in any sport) Just go out and ride, have all the fun you can and try to keep it off the street in a safe and controlled envioronment. That way when a potential sponsor , promotor, or otherwise important party sees you riding you dont look like a bunch of reckless jackasses. Keep it real and dont sweat the $$$$$ that comes with time.
The video swapping thing is a great idea. Weve done it and its a good way for teams from far away to get some noteriety in a different part of the country. It also keeps the money away from scam artists like impact and x-factor, because when you send me a case of tapes I dont dupe them and never talk to you again. when theyre gone I'll ask you to trade off some more or sell em to me again.
Anyhow Thomas, I know you only have good intentions for this sport and you bust your ass to try and make it better, this was just my opinion. I could be wrong.

I agree with everyone here. I think a sponsor should help you out. Which means they should incur some of the expenses that a stunt team encounters, tires, gas, traveling expenses, etc.

The XSBA is not where it's at! Did you read the article that Pauly from LVX wrote? I didn't research his information but why would he lie about the shit going on with XSBA? It sounds like the corporate world, XSBA + Clear Channel, is just looking for a quick buck with low overhead!!!

We all did performances for free earlier in our stunt team lives. And depending on the situation, I'm sure that if we would have to do it again we would. Nobody likes to work for free but shit happens. To get your name out to the public is hard to do. Nobody came right out with the popularity of the StarBoyz or Triple Xtreme. But wouldn't that be nice?

I've always said, "I would rather make a dollar a day doing something that I love, than make a million a day doing something that I don't.

In my opinion, extreme stunting is going to blow up very shortly. And I mean "BLOW UP". You will see extreme stunting being performed in the X-Games before you know it. Bicycle street comp came from somewhere. So why not have motorcycle street comp??? MARK MY WORDS!!! EXRTEME STUNTING IS GOING TO BLOW UP!!!

It is only a matter of time before factory sponsorships are being dosed out. Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki........they will have no choice. I would suggest though, that if you have sponsors now, not to leave them behind. If you sign on with some big deal, take the little shop that helped you got on your feet with you, on the ride to the top!!!

Laterz, KW Rich

they make some good points w/ the xsba thing. clearchannel has thousands of billboards all across the nation. they can't reference these companies to advertise and sponsor stunt riding? At the same time fmx, monster trucks, ccs, and more have all kinds of corporate sponsors.

What's teh payout for top spot in a supercross race?

What's the payout for top spot in xsba?

EXACTLY, they are trying to rip us off too. and you work for them!!!

Hey Rodg CC some of your comments are just plain messed up.
I guess you would like any up an coming riders to just stand on the sidelines and let the " talented" people have a go.
Give me a break.
You want this stuff off the streets ??? Shiat this stuff grew up on the streets so it will always be there in some form or another.
How did you learn stunting, for damn sure some street was involved. I am also sure you just didnt jump on your bike and start doing circles in a parking lot so spare us all your hypocritcal remarks.

Cheers
SK

Thomas -

Okay I know I am a newbie and don't know too much but.....Did something specific happen w/ some sponsor (or so called sponsor) dissin you?

I remember the first time I saw someone stunt...and yes it was on a highway...but I was like !! oh my god I can't believe that guy is doing that...Then I saw my first show. Big Difference - controlled environment, entertaining etc. I was hooked!

My point is: Yes, I think you guys get undersold ALL the time. I think people just think you are crazy and this is your hobby and you will do it for free if they ask you enough.

Businesses/Sponsors are only going to give as much as they have to. Maybe and only my silly idea...but we/you should try to work on more P/R (public relations) Getting the videos out there - videos of performances that were done in a controlled environment so you don't scare the begeezzies outta the ole peeps to try to sell yourself. That is what it is all about. You gotta work on the public I think. So many people don't even know this is a sport because it is not "publically" recognized. I remember before I knew anything I wanted to get a stunt video and I went to Blockbuster!! can you imagine - I may as well have asked for a porno!! But maybe that is a start. ??? Mainstream advertsing like local video stores. Cuz for people that DON:T ride unles you happen to be at Hooters the right night or at a Drag Strip one weekend for a comp you may NEVER get to see what you're missing...

It is a bit of "supply and demand" and I agree w/ you that if more guys are gonna do it for free or damn close to it, it is not going to help you move forward.

I do feel bad for you guys. I know most of you do it cuz you love it but let's face it. ALL the practicing you do and learning new stunts is dangerous and you should be compensated for your skillz.

I think this sport is gonna "Blow Up" also - but when??? It is just gonna take one group - or one guy to get noticed by someone big and then it will blow I guess.

Good Luck to ya! Thanks for listening!
**Disclaimer - I am a newbie so don't hate my silly idea - appreciate you have another FAN!**

:cheers

ok i think anybody that knows me knew i would chime in evetually (lol) here goes:

kraywhiterich - um dude u are allowed ur opinion but i wouldnt use pauly as a reference for fact there is alot of stuff behind why he was blastin the xsba.

rodge-i hear yah but u gotta remember that if u follow the model u have for stuntings path to success u are gonna alienate alot of up and commers that could be the next chauncey,kyle woods etc etc.

thomas - u know where i stand as far as how i feel about the work u do for this sport and w/o u there would be alot less recognition if any at all by some major players (not alot of people realize what u have done though cuz u dont like to talk about all of it)


bottom line: sponsorship is a business. People need to start treating it as such. If a company paints yer plastics for free that is worth a dollar amount (get a price list from said company and keep track of "how much money they have saved u over the course of a year" lets say they charge jo blow 500 dollars to paint his/her plastics and they did 4 sets of plastics for u that translates into a $2000 sponosorship for the year. Now u have a company that says "ok we wanna sponsor u ............ we will print all the t-shirts u sell for 2 dollars a piece instead of $8 dollars a piece. now if u had 500 t shirts printed at a savings of 6 dollars a shirt they just gave u a $3000 dollar sponsorship. third u have jimmies stunt shirt factory who says im gonna sponsor u here is 2 free shirts for each guy in yer crew (say there are 3 guys in yer crew) now jimmy would sell these shirts for 25 dollars each lets say so that would be a $150 dollar sponsorship. Ok so here comes the business end of it. Each one of these sponsors is essentially buying advertisement space from u (that space could be on yer body, bike,website, or by means of what u say about them (word of mouth advertising). Now the reason u have to calculate the money that each service translates into is because that is the only way to make a level playing field for all sponsors. What i mean is this. If the t-shirt factory gave u $3000 dollars for the year and the painter gave u $200 dollars for the year, and jimmy gave u $150 dollars for the year u have to give "advertising space " accordingly. For example it would not be fair to me if i bought a 30second commercial on abc for 1million dollars during the superbowl and then nabisco bought the same add space for $1000. See my point? The only thing ur gonna do is run away ur own money! If u show the guy givin u $3000 dollars that he gets the same exposure as the guy who gives u $150 dollars then the first guy is gonna say "well y should i give u that much when i would get the same investment return for $150?" And vice versa if u show the guy only given $150 that if he gave $3000 like another sponsor he would be advertised accordingly (and u can show that by example!) then that small sponsor is much more likely to pony up more money because he/she already knows what he/she will get out of it! You have to play the game in the business world and the sooner u learn that game the sooner u will start makin money doin somethin u love!

Ok my turn. I see both sides of this view. Everyone started off somewhere small, just like anything in life. It takes lots of hard work and patience, as we all know, to get anywhere in life. For example, once you graduate college, you are not going to be the CEO of a Fortune 500 company,. If it were that easy, everyone would be doing it.

Continue working hard guys and giving back. Sad but probably true in most cases, the nicer we all are to people, the more they walk on you, and how we don't get ahead. :mad:

first off.....Im not saying dont go ride for free, have fun, do what you want and help out local tracks/promotors/sponsors all the way---- I do shit for free a lot

im saying dont kill yourselves by helping somone else make money and not get anything in return!!!!

local tracks... i will go do free shows at one, because he let us practice back in the days... all the other ones can kiss my ass, because back in the days they used to kick us out 4 riding wheelies... now they know we bring fans so they call us all the time wanting to get us to come ride


and no I havent been "dissed" by a sponsor lately lol (but you made some good points Shanaynay)
I am inside the industry and talk to a lot of them all they time...
YES THEY ARE ONLY GOING TO GIVE WHAT THEY HAVE TO!!!
so that means if they can give XXX 10k dollars or give the ABC stunters and 5 other teams some product.... what are they going to do?? they are going to go the cheap route..... WE SHOULD NOT GIVE THEM A CHEAP ROUTE!!!!! this is how we are undercutting ourselves:nono

the Metal Mulisha had to damn near boycott sponsors to make them ante up and pay the big money!! now look where they are... was it worth it?? HELL YES!!

dont accept things the way they are... speak up, talk to people and do what you can to get more

DONT BE COMPLACENT, I wasnt and Im still not

if someone wants to sponsor you, the least they should do is give you free product with no questions asked!!!

if a magazine wants to put your pic on the cover, the least they should do is put your name/website in the credits

if a local track owner wants you to come ride the least they should do is let you practice for free whenever

each stunt team is a business and should be treated as such, newer guys should try to do shows, sell videos (even other teams) and make it to at least regional competitions.... if you hear that so and so is doing a show in your hometown or is sponsored by some company, dont go in undercutting them..... stay in contact with the company/promotor and get it when that show or sponsorship comes around the next year

we have a distinct advantage that other sports did not, we are all right here together... at this point we need to get our shit together and do it right.

its like we are all starved dogs locked in a kennel and we all fight over a freaking bone.... in the mean time, a few of us dogs are starving, plotting a way to get the **** out of the kennel, not worried about that measly ass bone

once again this is the point, YOU ARE VALUABLE, DO NOT SELL YOURSELF SHORT... we want sponsors and recognition sooooo bad that we are taking any little thing we get

we have to change our mindstates for the coming season

what if we all wore all black gear, no labels no nothing, no stickers on our bikes nada... the only thing you would represent is you, your team and your skills

we have to get these peoples attention and quit giving ourselves away

How many of you have heard about a local show where there is a wheelie contest or the ruff riders are supposed to be there and you went and killed that shit, shut em down!....now think about this, you just rode for free or won a trophy and at the end of the day, the promotors paid the ruff riders a few thousand and all the fans went home thinking the ruff riders are still the shit
= GAA'BAGE

some of you are still getting the name out there, ok do it for free, make sure you do it right-let everyone (track owner, promotor) know who the hell you are... and never do it for free again... some local shit on a saturday... get you and all your boyz in free and set up a booth to sell shit at least....damn make the promotor buy you lunch

------------
Impact has the 110% video and the DVD
Xfactor is another story and u know how it goes ang
------------
isnt it funny how the guys you never heard of are the ones who follow pauly up and talk about factory rides... all the while dreaming about the Xgames-get real
-------------
if you want 2k to do a show and a local promotor says, u know what? I only have 1k in the budget but i will get you hotel rooms and expenses, and take you to the radio station and all types of other shit.... ok make a reasonable decision

but if he says all I have is $500 take it or leave it.... you should leave it and then when he cant find anyone else to do it he will be willing to pay your price
-------------
The XSBA has and will continue to break down many barriers for freestyle riders that had stood strong for years.... no there isnt a lot there for a lot of people yet.... and I dont expect anyone to lose money by traveling across country to come compete.... I wont do it.... but as it stands the XSBA has positively brought what we do into the eyes of a lot of industry insiders.... I personally know of a lot of sponsor/team relationships that were based upon XSBA participation.... AND I KNOW OF A FEW TEAMS WHO GAINED SPONSORS BY SAYING THEY COMPETE AT THE XSBA BUT THEY DONT...... dont get it twisted, CC isnt making some ungodly amount of money off of us like some would like to think....The positives far outweigh the negatives and I work hard to change the negatives, with the input of the riders....which is more than I can say about a lot of the people who sit on the sideline running thier mouths.... and are planning on jumping on the boat once the storm is all over

I jumped on this bitch in the middle of a hurricane and have ridden it out ever since, just because Im not making public announcements bashing people, or talking about every little thing like some people doesnt mean nothing is happening..... 843-270-0855 is my number if anyone has any specific questions/comments/complaints about the XSBA

NICE, we didn't land any sponsorships because of our sponsorship packet that did state that we planned on competing in the XSBA series for the 03 season. In fact our only sponsors our as listed below, a local salvage yard and stuntdesigns whom we met up with at Bikeweek. We would like to compete in XSBA, however we won't be able to afford traveling to these events if sponsors don't get involved, and the payouts are barely enough to cover travel costs. This can only come out of ones pocket for so long.

Look at that tour idea I came up with. That was a golden oppritunity for anyone to spread there name across New England, that trip would've covered over 5k miles. I sent that email to so many different companies with only a few replies. And only one fellow stunter wanted to get involved and spread his name and video across the land, THANKS DARIUS, I'm still sellin those vids wherever I can and will hit you back soon. NOT ONE SL USER EVEN SAID HAVE FUN OR GOOD LUCK. gee thanks

BASICALLY EVERYONE IS IN THIS FOR THEMSELVES, AND UNLESS WE WORK TOGETHER SOMEONE OR SOME TEAM IS ALWAYS GOING TO EXPLOIT OUR SPORT AND SELLOUT FOR THE 5 MIN OF FAME AND GLAMOUR. LIKE A UNION, WE NEED TO SET MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS FOR PAY AND OTHER SPONSORSHIP FEES. and if anyone hears of some shitty team doing shows for cheaper, OFF WITH THEIR THROTTLE HANDS!!!

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DSOG Thomas [/i]
[B]what if we all wore all black gear, no labels no nothing, no stickers on our bikes nada... the only thing you would represent is you, your team and your skills[/B][/QUOTE]

<--- you mean like that?

here's a few lines from that sponsorship packet.

PLEASE DO NOT CONFUSE US WITH EXTREME MOTORCYCLE TEAMS OR VIDEOS. Other riders have taken this sport where it was never intended to be, and that is on public highways. The Control Coalition has not featured, been involved with, or plan to depict said behavior in traffic or other hazardous situations. We execute our stunts in a controlled environment, usually raceways or private facilities where we have permission to do so.

i like to race. i like to do wheelies. i like the XSBA, it is a circuit...if you want and can travel, do it; if you cant, dont. Stunt riding needs to become more like racing, and it slowly but surely is. Someone pays me money or carts my bike around in exchange for me putting some graphics on my bike, this allows me to be seen by magazines, insider reps and whoever at places like the XSBA....at any Formula USA event, you see reps from many companies....brake co's, tire co's, leather co's, parts unlimited, mtn dew, hooters, etc...i didnt see any of those guys at any of my shows last summer....

i may have puffed on the dragon one too many times but:

everyone starts somewhere, we should TRY and not undercut ourselves, but it is difficult when you have the decision to get paid 5 beans for something you love or 0 beans for not doing something you love...each situation is different, i hear the pain and experience the frustration all the time when someone comes in and swipes something i've been working hard on for a while....

on another note: honda called and they offered me a full ride on a VTX 1800, i just havent figured out how to do chinese willeys yet.

rodg, shoulda holla'd at ya and shown some love for your idea, if you are ever in NE or the NH area, i got a house, a track and some spots...

ang, stay gay buddy, i keep trying to make it down to see ya, hopefully XSBA...daves bike is the shizznit...craziest thing i've ridden!

thomas, i hate you and i will be sure to send you some pics from IOWA...

that is all for now, my hands hurt, my head hurts and my lolipop sucker is waiting for me in the hot tub.....


after a while crocodile,

Teach