rrmike

OK Peeps here's the deal. I took all the good advice I've read here to heart and me and the brother on his F4i (Who has never gotten any 2nd gear air under his belt) went out to learn clutching. He's in the hospital and my bike is junk I don't know what the hell you people are thinking recommending this crap but we were doing great before. Now we are never riding again!!!! I won't, he can't.

All kidding aside though it went great. He got it up before I was able to which suprised me since I've been doing them more than he has. I started to get jealous because I couldn't get it up I kept getting a little front wheel lift but because I wasn't holding on good with both hands it would turn a little and get some wheel wobble. He mentioned the index finger only thing and after showing him another one I tried that. Took about 3 or 4 tries and it's a done deal now. I can clutch 2nd up pretty good and 1st really slow. (accidentally did one slow rolling burnout trying one a little too slow )

The standups didn't work quite so slick. That took until I had done maybe 10 or 15 sit down clutch jobs to get that part all dialed in and then I could focus on the standup ride it out part without having to worry so much about being bucked off. Now I got a couple of standups up in 2nd with the clutch but still have better luck straight power bouncing them up for freeway type speeds.

It's a lot to absorb in one night of riding but we're both really stoked that we were able to pull it off without any trouble and now the whole clutching thing isn't the scary unknown that it was before.

Thanks for the advice all

snigg

update on my progress boys. two nights ago it just felt like something clicked for me. all my wheelies are staying up longer, and riding out further and much smoother than they have been in the past. i dont know wtf happened but after months of practice i see some real results. pics to come soon, im excited

bladerunner

Congrats snigg...keep up the front wheel and now that you're keeping it up longer, make sure you keep a close eye out for Mr.
You get excited and pull it up for 200 yards or so and when you set it down...on come the blues! Just be carefull

KungFu954

Congrats and mega props!!
I love to hear about people doing well. I have a really good idea what that "click" feels like. That's how it was with me when I learned endos,,,one day it just all came together. Awesome.

I made a little bit of progress today,,,by the way the bike is up and running again and doing great. I was out with a buddy of mine and I actually lifted the fron in second (that's pretty rare for me) felt pretty good. I also was able to get the front up quite a bit in first by useing two methods. One was a "BMX" style where it's just a really concentrated power up and throwing my weight back at the same time. That was working pretty good but I also did a number of clutch ups today and instead of moving my **** to the back of the seat I stayed pinched up close to the tank but sort of hunched my back and kept my arms straight that worked really well.
So I'll be at it again tomorrow Happy Independence day to all you other 9 5 4 riders.

r6dave

the guy that started this post, toby954, is one of my good friends, anyways....he layed his bike down last thursday....tried clutching 2nd and did a half assed loop....he was ridding by himself, no helmet, no leather....i dont know how many times i asked him to wear his helmet when we rode..... hes fine though...only a little rash on his elbow and a sore ***....broke his left side pegs and case cover....left clip-on...and some rash....he went down around 55-60mph.....

ALL MOTA

Damn! Sucks! But just learning to wheelie w/ no helmet is not cool! I'm glad he's okay.

I think that I have the left clip-on and a rash up stator cover. I'll sell them for cheap. Let me get pics.

snigg

make him wear a helmet! dumb thing to go out and stunt with no gear...

anyway, im riding my wheelies out for about a 1/4 mile or so id guess. bringin them up at 50mph and setting them down right around 100. all power in 2nd gear, gotta learn to balance them but im practicing. my buddies say im hugging the tank so im working on leaning back a little but it's coming along.

KungFu954

Damn,

I am really sorry to hear about Toby!! Hope he is doing ok. Send him my best would ya. I don't have any of the parts listed but if I did I would gladly send them out to him fo free. Tell that **** to wear at least a helmet. Especially when practicing, jeesh.
Oh and since he's gotta replace the stator cover anyway check out some heavey duty ones, so if the same thing happens again at least it won't spew all over the place.

My *****'s are just starting to come around now, I am loosing the fear of flipping and my rev's are getting higher and so is the front tire. Did a wicked power up the other day, now I'm pretty pumped.

I'll keep you posted

KungFu954

I actually got it up and held it for a brief moment this morning...felt pretty awesome.

Dax

Sweet!

I think I have read all the posts in this thread, so I apologize in advance if this
has already been posted. But from my avatar, can anyone tell how much
higher I need to get my front tire to get to bp?

I swear I must be right there. I felt it float just a little once, but I didn't get
it on tape, so I can't see the difference in height.

Thanks-

Also, I think we need to start a Stoppie thread for the 954's also. I can do
sit-down and stand-up wheelies all day long, but when it comes to stoppies
I get a little sketched out.

rrmike

So a couple guys from work gave my and my conductor a ride back to the depot last night and started mentioning wanting to see me do a wheelie on the scooter. So I tell them to follow me to the gas station and then there's a deserted stretch of 4 lane highway (deserted at 3:00AM).

Well I tell them to get going and just keep it at 50 and I intend to slow and bring up the wheelie at about 45 just as I'm dropping back beside them. Well I get about 3 really good ones and one that went for a long long way (They were going off about how cool it looked when I went under each power line and some overhanging tree branches and the headlight lit them up).

So you know how it always feels like your wheelie is pretty high? Even when you're first starting and they suck but it sure feels high to you? I thought these were plain old good (not too high) 2nd gear standups.

These guys were going berserk! They really thought I was just talking smack and that I couldn't ride a wheelie for crap I think. I think they expected much less than what I did. It was awesome! One guy was going on and on about how fast it came up and he thought I was going over for sure and how it looked straight up and down to him and he couldn't believe I could just ride it there. (I know it wasn't even BP but it's good to hear from other people that you're achieving the desired effect )

Now all the guys at work can quit giving me crap because I don't want to wheelie in front of the depot in the middle of town in a mostly residential area and get a reckless driving ticket or hurt myself or someone else. The info will get out quickly judging by how shocked these guys were :YEAH

rrmike

Looks close to me if you had your body back a little more and the bike up just a touch higher. If that's not BP then I'm pretty happy because I know I'm close too and that looked like a nice high wheelie. Just keep this thread going about the stoppies. Kung Fu 954 is a stoppie machine from what I've gathered.

FHL

BP the first time is "Oh **** I've gone too far" *waiting for it to loop*

ALL MOTA

As for height... looks at/near BP. I would work on body position. Try to make your upper half a little more upright. Most of the time hovering over the front like that only causes the front end to want to come down. I'm stand staggered which helps me stand more upright. I like leaning back a little too.

Good job!!!!

el nino

wow, it took about 25 minutes to read thsi whole thread

thanks to snigg for emaling me pics of his bike for teh exhuats ics,

and this therad is great

since evryone posts their style ill post how i "try" mine....i got my 954 about 2 weeks ago, i go in first and get it to like 5k, then decel and accel much harder and it comes up nice, cluthcing scares me, everytime i bring it to like 6k and drop it, the bikes doesnt do much. im sure i just have to keep it close to WOT during teh drop of the clutch, but anyways, ill post reusults and videos on my website www.evoeone.com, anyone with a vid worthy of posting (limited space) ill put it up,

great forums

Dax

I went out yesterday, and wasn't having much of a good day getting closer to
bp, so I started trying stoppies. I didn't have much of a good day there
either.

But one funny thing that happened, I have an aftermarket undertail,
and the crappy little plastic retention "screws" weren't doing the trick, so I
put a small bolt-nut-washer combination to hold it in place through each side
of the oem tabs. Well, after a couple of stoppies, I guess one of the tabs
got tired of the abuse and gave up. When I was about to head home, I
stopped and waited for my wife to gear up (she was video taping), I noticed
that the undertail was practically sitting on the tire. I got the thing to hold
most of the way home.

So I had to put my first "stitches" on the 954. It was sad having to drill into
the factory tail section.

rrmike

No need to bounce 1st gear bro. Just whack it open at any rpm over 3500 in first and it'll stand right up if you don't throw your weight forward. On the clutching thing just bring it up to about 60-70% throttle in first gear (any speed over a dead stop will do) and dip the clutch and let the revs build for just a bit and dump it. Don't try too much too soon but remember not to throw yourself forward or let off the gas when you dump the clutch. Only roll off when it comes up. If it doesn't come up just hold the clutch for a tad bit longer each time. I was terrified of the clutch thing until I tried it about 6 or 8 times and now it's ho-hum no big deal.

Only use your index finger to pull the clutch so you can keep a good grip on the handgrip with the rest of your left hand. It'll help you keep the bars straight when it jerks forward. I was having trouble with that. Once my bro gave me that little tip it was all gravy.

Keep practicing and post up here

toby954

well fellas after my computer being fixed... wrecking my bike... and losing my job and going to court all in the same week .... im finally posting bout the wreck.... well i was doin bout 45 and clutched it like i normally do in 2nd... and it came up pretty fast and hit the balance point ever... i was so excited to hit that and get that feeling... well i think i got so excited that i didnt think about covering the back brake... well i let off the throttl when i knew i was too high and it slowely slowely came back and scraped tail, then the tail kicked to the right and there she went. Sliding across f****n S/R 611. cops were there faster then ever... i figure some old lady called 911 thinking i was dead. after 4 cop cars 1 ambulance 1 firetruck and 1 tow truck , i got wreckless op, no helmet, and ficticious plates... so ill be getting my lawyer and goin to court... as of all this ill keep you all posted after court and when i get on the road again...... be safe fellas

KungFu954

Awesome!!!!

Thanks for the props RRmike!!! If only I could wheelie well,,,soon damnit soon.

Dax, first off that is a bitchen wheelie, I think. I would think your about 1 and a half **** hairs away from the proverbial BP. You should give me a few pointers, cause man I am just frustrated about the whole wheelie thang. Some days I can get em up and others I can't no matter what I try. My best success is with first gear, I know, I know it shouldn't be but it is. So maybe you can give some tips eh? Especially since I am exactly the opposite of you my wheelies blow and my stoppies rock
OK, so let's talk stoppies for a few, I know it ain't the right post but since there doesn't seem to be any objections here we go. I can talk all damn day about stoppies so this might be a big post.

Now let me start by saying that for stoppies I am completely convinced that the 954 is the worlds best bike for stoppies. The reasons are simple. Absolutly the best brakes on any stock bike (my opinion,,,but common you know I'm right). Second, the bike is simply light. Third, it's short not stretched out. Fourth, best brakes ever. Fifth, it's frame is very strong. So all and all awesome.
This is a list of things you ALWAYS need to be aware of.
1) Road surface, ASPHALT. The best surface is grey asphalt. If the surface is real dark that means it's new and that stuff is ok but not the best. If it's black and shiney don't even think about it, that is a surface that is really cheap, mostly found in parking lots, it has a higher tar percentage and is slippery, especially when it's hot. Concrete is terrible, I don't know how many times I've locked my front tire up on concrete, just say no. What you want (especially when learning) is a nice non-glossy medium grey color asphalt with no tar patches, and no oil marks.

2) Road CAMBER. pay close attention to the camber of the road, when learning it's best to find a nuetral camber road or otherwise called A FLAT ROAD. Why? well, a off camber road will result in the back end trying to swing around, when your learning, it's just not cool. Fin a FLAT SURFACE.

3) weather and tires. I put these two things together because they go together so well. When learning go for HOT days (perfect time of year to learn). The hotter the day the better your tires will respond. Simple, you need to have warm tires to do this, (yes there are exeptions but not when learning) So if your out on a 90 degree day you can count on the road surrface to be hot and that not only helps warm the tires but it let's them keep the heat better. Never do stoppies on cold tires. Tire pressure, you want to run a little lower but you don't have to go nuts. I know dudes who run the pressure way down, personally I don't think you need to. I run my front tire at about 28 psi. What really matters is the type of tire. The best front tire I've ever used for stoppies is the stock bridgestone BTO12ss. I have a brand new metzler M-4 on the back,,,and I have to say I am sold so my next front will be a match to my rear. I have a BTO10 on the front now and its, ok. And of course always scrub it in first.

4) Body position. For learning, don't try to throw you wieght forward, that comes later. For learning put that package right up on the tank. Stiffen the arms, some people lock them I tend to have a little bend in the arms but I make sure they are nice and stiff. Once you start the stoppie don't move your body<---big trick to learning fast.

5)Fear factor. There are a couple things about doing a stoppie that you must fight. THE NUMBER ONE THING,,,DO NOT BAIL. I have seen this so many times it's silly. Someone starts a good stoppie and then when it slows down to a near stop they put thier feet down. Or try to put thier feet down when the rear is landing. Don't do this unless it is absolutly the last resort. when the back tire is in the air and you put your feet down it's gonna cause a chain reaction. 1st you upset the balance, second when your feet don't touch the ground (and they won't) you will probably panic, upsetting the bike more. then you fall off. Your goal should be to do this stunt without ever putting your feet down.

6) Break control. I personally use my index and middle finger on the break I've seen people do it with different styles but the only style I strongly dissagree with is all four fingers on the break,,,it's simply too much and you'll have more of a tenancy to "mash" the break. I like the two finger approach becuase I get the best feel with it. Break control may take some time to really get down but I'll cover that.

7)Driveline, I typically shift into first gear and leave the clutch in. Gear is up to you but ALWAYS PULL IN THE CLUTCH. i like first cause if something happens I can get instant power to the bike if I need to.

8) CHECK THOSE MIRRORS. I just met a guy who totalled his bike because he didn't look behind to see if anyone was coming. This should be a no brainer but I'll say it anyways check those mirrors.

9) a steering damper is a good idea

OK I know it seems like a lot but everything I mentioned will become second nature very quickly.

Whew. now that I covered that stuff let's get started. The first thing you want to do is practice hard breaking. this is a very progressive process. First, review all of the above like a check list. Now get going at about 40mph and slowly apply the front break. This is like an experiment. Pay close attenton to yourself and the bike. Notice that as soon as you started to break the front forks collapse<----important. Make sure your body position is steady and rigid.
Now repeat. get used to breaking quickly without lifting the back. If you happen to lift the back by accident don't freak. Just let a little pressure off the break. this is a really good exercise anyway, because you can never have too much break control. OK so now you've practiced a lot and it's go time.
So, start out at 40 mph. Some people say slower but here is a little fact the slower you are going the faster you must raise the rear tire before coming to a stop<---not a good idea for learning. However, on the other hand the faster you go the more it will hurt you and your pocket book if you crash. I think 40mph to 50 mph is good. Now, get up to speed, pull in the clutch, and add just a little bit of initial pressure. This will help colapse the front forks. Colapseing the forks is really really key to doing this right. When the front forks colapse that means all of the breaking force is going right to the tire not being eaten up by the suspension. You can tell when people don't do this cause the either eat it or they lock the front tire and come close to eating it.
So, a lil pressure to colapse the forks now add more pressure steadily. You want this to be a squeeze motion, like shooting a gun, steady, and even. As you increase the pressure the rear of the bike will get light. You may not lift the back end the first few times you try and you may even get frustrated but just stay with it, it comes fast. Now, once you do start lifting the rear don't try to go high just let it happen. much like a wheelie and the throttle chopping disease (which I have) the trick is to adjust the breakk pressure as you go.
there are some serious mile stones with stoppies, 1st getting the rear off the ground, some people need more time to get comfortable with this. I have even been accused of lying. once guy was so frustrated he told me I was full of it and that there was no way to bring the back tire up from 40mph. but trust me it is, I have done it from 10mph before so i know 40 is enough. 50 is good too.
next mile stone, why don't my stoppies roll. they just come to a dead stop. Well, simple, as you learn the back will start coming up quicker as you get more comforable to the sensation. when it comes up slowly the back tire isn't getting high enough quick enough. It means that you need more practice.

Here is the really really funny part about stoppies. for a long time they will feel like they are 4 feet off the deck when really they are only a few inches or so. Then suddenly they will feel like a few inches but they will be much higher. So, you must must must have some one take pictures of you once that tire start leaving the ground. I'm not joking. For the longest time I thought my stoppies sucked until about 2 years ago and I had my wife take pictures of me. I WAS SHOCKED TO SEE THAT I WAS EXTREEMLY CLOSE TO THE BALANCE POINT. So tape or take pictures of your progress. you'll be amazed. Don't take a buddies word for it, pictures cause only you can tell where you want to be.
and I swear that happened over night. Don't get so focused on this that you forget to have fun. It is about fun you know.

Please let me know about any questions you have. I hope this is really helpful. I will continue with more in the coming days.

Later fellas,, off to practice my little tiny wheelies again :YEAH

KungFu954

Oh ya,,by the way don't ever stunt,,,having said that the above artical is how it's done. I do not condone any type of reckless endos or stunts. practice at your own will....Don't blame me if you screw up that is just how I do it