Fork setups...Enough already!!!

[ExtremeAcres]

Here is my I've been interested in forks since the late eighties....I was roadracing and studied my forks a bit........ and What I found wayyyy back then , is sounding exactly like what alot are saying now.....
Back in the day....On a hurricane 600 (conventional forks) with race springs and heavier oil...blah blah.... Well , I used to look down at my forktubes (through the body...looking straight down them) while i was braking from about 140 to 70 or so....hard.... Those tubes were flexing....oh about an inch backwards as I recall, at the axel !!! I was like "holy shit " for awhile , but got used to it.... Then the 93 900RR's came out (my avatar) and I got one... with inverteds.... same test , same track, (but maybe from 150 to 70 ...they only flexed back about 3/8' of an inch....substantially different...better....firmer...blah blah ....

The flex in conventionals fork tubes travels beyond the lower tripple tree(higher than it....and can cause the slightest bow in between the triple trees even....) this is what i was told by some gurus back in the day.
inverteds dont do this cause they have the big fat body mounted in the tripples.
I think that a set of Billet tripples with like 3 pinch bolts top and bottom for an F4i...Covering like 1-1/2 inches of fork tube at the top and at the lower trip tree) , could reduce alot of that flex, and have some improvement for a stock fork setup.... I've seen tripple trees like that for other apps.

One other point that im not sure if it was mentioned yet.... Inverteds have less "unsprung weight" ( less weight below the spring)... this is a major factor in all types of suspension , bikes , cars etc. across the board....Less unsprung weight = better soaking up of bumps..... I think this is one reason everyone is saying the inverteds dont pogo and feel more secure....they are "working better doing what they are supposed to be doing"

I'm doing weak little stoppies on my f4i and I'm already feeling pogo-ing....albeit slight.... and I wont feel the need to switch for awhile....but I could see upgrading in a year or so....If I've been a good boy, and practiced , and improved enough to where I think i earned them and I know i'll be able to make the best of them. just my

BTW.... next time you have a wide open area and opportunity..... Do some hard braking from100 or better down to 50 or less....all while looking down past your tripples at the bottom of your forks....and look at the Flex !!! guys with conventionals will see more than inverts.... later

[-Nasty-]

Originally Posted by ExtremeAcres

Here is my I've been interested in forks since the late eighties....I was roadracing and studied my forks a bit........ and What I found wayyyy back then , is sounding exactly like what alot are saying now.....
Back in the day....On a hurricane 600 (conventional forks) with race springs and heavier oil...blah blah.... Well , I used to look down at my forktubes (through the body...looking straight down them) while i was braking from about 140 to 70 or so....hard.... Those tubes were flexing....oh about an inch backwards as I recall, at the axel !!! I was like "holy shit " for awhile , but got used to it.... Then the 93 900RR's came out (my avatar) and I got one... with inverteds.... same test , same track, (but maybe from 150 to 70 ...they only flexed back about 3/8' of an inch....substantially different...better....firmer...blah blah ....

The flex in conventionals fork tubes travels beyond the lower tripple tree(higher than it....and can cause the slightest bow in between the triple trees even....) this is what i was told by some gurus back in the day.
inverteds dont do this cause they have the big fat body mounted in the tripples.
I think that a set of Billet tripples with like 3 pinch bolts top and bottom for an F4i...Covering like 1-1/2 inches of fork tube at the top and at the lower trip tree) , could reduce alot of that flex, and have some improvement for a stock fork setup.... I've seen tripple trees like that for other apps.

One other point that im not sure if it was mentioned yet.... Inverteds have less "unsprung weight" ( less weight below the spring)... this is a major factor in all types of suspension , bikes , cars etc. across the board....Less unsprung weight = better soaking up of bumps..... I think this is one reason everyone is saying the inverteds dont pogo and feel more secure....they are "working better doing what they are supposed to be doing"

I'm doing weak little stoppies on my f4i and I'm already feeling pogo-ing....albeit slight.... and I wont feel the need to switch for awhile....but I could see upgrading in a year or so....If I've been a good boy, and practiced , and improved enough to where I think i earned them and I know i'll be able to make the best of them. just my

BTW.... next time you have a wide open area and opportunity..... Do some hard braking from100 or better down to 50 or less....all while looking down past your tripples at the bottom of your forks....and look at the Flex !!! guys with conventionals will see more than inverts.... later

cliftnotes?

[HOLLYWOODNYC]

im not sure i ever got to see john mac but rommel i use to ride with alot here in ny and i seen him doin his thing not just doing endoz...

[LivingCanvas]

Originally Posted by ExtremeAcres

Here is my I've been interested in forks since the late eighties....I was roadracing and studied my forks a bit........ and What I found wayyyy back then , is sounding exactly like what alot are saying now.....
Back in the day....On a hurricane 600 (conventional forks) with race springs and heavier oil...blah blah.... Well , I used to look down at my forktubes (through the body...looking straight down them) while i was braking from about 140 to 70 or so....hard.... Those tubes were flexing....oh about an inch backwards as I recall, at the axel !!! I was like "holy shit " for awhile , but got used to it.... Then the 93 900RR's came out (my avatar) and I got one... with inverteds.... same test , same track, (but maybe from 150 to 70 ...they only flexed back about 3/8' of an inch....substantially different...better....firmer...blah blah ....

The flex in conventionals fork tubes travels beyond the lower tripple tree(higher than it....and can cause the slightest bow in between the triple trees even....) this is what i was told by some gurus back in the day.
inverteds dont do this cause they have the big fat body mounted in the tripples.
I think that a set of Billet tripples with like 3 pinch bolts top and bottom for an F4i...Covering like 1-1/2 inches of fork tube at the top and at the lower trip tree) , could reduce alot of that flex, and have some improvement for a stock fork setup.... I've seen tripple trees like that for other apps.

One other point that im not sure if it was mentioned yet.... Inverteds have less "unsprung weight" ( less weight below the spring)... this is a major factor in all types of suspension , bikes , cars etc. across the board....Less unsprung weight = better soaking up of bumps..... I think this is one reason everyone is saying the inverteds dont pogo and feel more secure....they are "working better doing what they are supposed to be doing"

I'm doing weak little stoppies on my f4i and I'm already feeling pogo-ing....albeit slight.... and I wont feel the need to switch for awhile....but I could see upgrading in a year or so....If I've been a good boy, and practiced , and improved enough to where I think i earned them and I know i'll be able to make the best of them. just my

BTW.... next time you have a wide open area and opportunity..... Do some hard braking from100 or better down to 50 or less....all while looking down past your tripples at the bottom of your forks....and look at the Flex !!! guys with conventionals will see more than inverts.... later

GOOD POST

Z-Unit I might be willing to trade when you come out...

[Z-UNIT]

i have a 954 front end on my bike, and it seems more consistant once up in the stoppie but for sum reason the f4i front end seems to get to bp quicker...both of us are running pilot power fronts with about 28lbs of pressure, and the key i heard/found to be with stoppies is not loosing alot of speed on the pop up...im only rollin 100 or less feet, but i think i cud roll better on the f4i front end, u nail the brakes and it just shoots up, u do that with the 954 and it comes up but not as quicl...2 cents

[da Liks]

i like the f4i i recently got for stoppies. i was rolling about 240 ft without even trying. i´m putting a damper on this week and maybe an oil change, and doing the springs this summer.

[f4stunna]

Originally Posted by Z-UNIT

i have a 954 front end on my bike, and it seems more consistant once up in the stoppie but for sum reason the f4i front end seems to get to bp quicker...both of us are running pilot power fronts with about 28lbs of pressure, and the key i heard/found to be with stoppies is not loosing alot of speed on the pop up...im only rollin 100 or less feet, but i think i cud roll better on the f4i front end, u nail the brakes and it just shoots up, u do that with the 954 and it comes up but not as quicl...2 cents

i think your brakes or tire svck then

[Tiretrauma]

[ Back in the day, the 900rr was said to be a bad stoppie bike, but with some tinkering, it turned out to crush (like that?) the world record...]

I rock out a 99 900rr, is there a thread or does anyone know the "tinkering" you should do to set the bike up??

[Matt Gorka]

Like I said before, I've never rode a f4i, let alone with a 929 or 954 front end, but even so, I still get a lot of questions about both setups which leads me to believe neither is perfect in stock form. I am a firm believer in fork springs and I don't want to hear about their cost. They're 100 bucks and a couple more for labor...work some overtime. You're rolling stoppies that could potentially wreck you for the rest of your life if your setup is junk. Stock springs are really progressive, which means they are much stiffer when they're compressed than they are at the end which is why they compress so much.....not to mention they're made for a 135lb japanese rider. Stiff springs keep your forks consistent and it doesn't take a genius to figure out when your springs are fully compressed on a stock bike, they're about 4 inches shorter than when they're extended. Drop your front end 4 inches and ride it around. I'll bet you get a tankslapper at 30 mph....Not necessarily consistent if you ask me. Back before anybody was thinking about swapping front ends, Woods put a 954 front end on a 900rr and the thing would chirp the front end and nearly wash out every time you went into a stoppie. We had to play around with the forks a lot to get it to hook up smooth, so just like any other component on your bike, adjusting it and setting it up for you and your riding style is absolutely necessary which is the point I'm trying to stress. Everyone has a position for their clip on's that best suits them. Position of the brake and clutch lever that best suits them. Gearing that best suits their riding. Brake pads that best suits their feel. Tires that best suit their confidence. Gloves that feel best for riding. Special shoes so they can feel the brake lever........So why the hell doesn't anybody do anything with the forks that they roll stoppies on and think that it's just peachy how they come from the factory? I guess I get frustrated when people just claim something as junk and don't consider this option. My 900rr forks were far from perfect, but I got them to feel better than anything I've ever rode....Because I rode my bike and didn't like how it pogo'd...so I changed the springs. Not once, but twice. .95's to 1.0's. I still thought they needed to be a bit smoother, so I went for a bit thicker oil. I didn't like how the bike felt a bit squirly at the balance point so I thought about bikes that were considered real stable in a stoppie, like the zx6 and tried to replicate the same front end geometry by raising the front end, or dropping the forks in the triples. I spent an entire day adjusting and rolling....adjusting and rolling until I found a setting that was rock solid. It felt light years from the forks in stock form....They felt like garbage stock and now they were perfect. I didn't refuse to think and just bolt on another front end and still have no idea behind the concept of what I just did and still not be completely satisfied...which is what most people do.

[MannyFresh954]

Originally Posted by Emrock

i never lowered mine and it was fine

im not sure if you still got a bike but if you dont, get a stock f4i and one with an 954 on it and put it next to eachother and you'll see a diffrence....also take a look at the specs on a f4i and then the 929/954 and you'll see that theres a diffrence in the frontend hight....so by lowwering the frontend on it makes it easier to bring up and higher, longer, just a better all around better set up....

[MannyFresh954]

Originally Posted by Joe Brown

rember these days matt...

i still have the poster that came in the asphalt mag and youre doing a stopy on a zx6(i think)....


what are the clip-ons that youre running now????

[GSE Nick]

Originally Posted by Emrock

First off wrong thread a$$clown and secondly what gearing are u running

haha i know but i think crazy things all the time lol.....and running a 58 tooth rear on the 636

[Matt Gorka]

Originally Posted by TEACH C6

there is NO logical reasoning to switch them....mostly it is a head game and i play into myself, hence the 05 RR's instead of the 04's. i refused to build anything but the 05.

some theory: f4i front ends seem to be soft, but as you said, this can be changed easily with some springing/valving. but i think, imo, that the forks will flex more versus the inverted types. inverted forks are so strong that they will bend frames instead of the forks bending (seen it a million times at argos) when they hit something. this has to translate into stoppies as well, maybe even taking out the variable of a slight fork flex.

Dan jackson does fine on his f4i, but he uses his body a lot...and even likes them to pogo easiliyu! personally, the only thing endoeing the bike for me is the brakes being applied by 2 fingers, i dont hump, move, or whatever....call 'em chauncey stoppies-sit in the seat and use the brakes.

just some thoughts...but i'll stand by my first statement: it's a mind fukc and people do what they THINK will help them.

btw gorka: opeRRation bandwagon is in full effect....and secondly, talked to the kid the other day, time to go motarding!

Chauncey stoppies...Funny, I use the kids name when referring to how he does them. Kid...hell, he probably has a beard by now. I'm beginning to really like my 600rr. I have the forks down in the triples so the bottom of the caps on top of the forks are flush with the tops of the triples and it's really good. Only moved them a little, but it made a huge difference in how it feels. The balance point keeps the back end relatively low , which gives me all kinds of confidence. Springs are stock and **** so bad I want to punch something, but I'll get those done real soon. Nothing like snapping it up and bouncing your way to a stop. As for inverted forks, there is more visual appeal than anything else. Conventional forks are almost taboo and considered old, so they must be bad...right? Listen, one of the things about the 600rr I liked were the pretty gold inverted forks, so I can't throw stones....But, fact is, I could roll much more confidently on my old school 900rr with regular old forks than I can on my shiny new, inverted-forked 600rr...At least for now.

[eazenutz33]

Originally Posted by Matt Gorka

Chauncey stoppies...Funny, I use the kids name when referring to how he does them. Kid...hell, he probably has a beard by now. I'm beginning to really like my 600rr. I have the forks down in the triples so the bottom of the caps on top of the forks are flush with the tops of the triples and it's really good. Only moved them a little, but it made a huge difference in how it feels. The balance point keeps the back end relatively low , which gives me all kinds of confidence. Springs are stock and **** so bad I want to punch something, but I'll get those done real soon. Nothing like snapping it up and bouncing your way to a stop. As for inverted forks, there is more visual appeal than anything else. Conventional forks are almost taboo and considered old, so they must be bad...right? Listen, one of the things about the 600rr I liked were the pretty gold inverted forks, so I can't throw stones....But, fact is, I could roll much more confidently on my old school 900rr with regular old forks than I can on my shiny new, inverted-forked 600rr...At least for now.

you should ride my 600RR......got them old taboo forks......but set-up real similar to what your 900 was......They don't pogo on me and I'm a pretty big boy!

[Emrock]

Originally Posted by MannyFresh954

im not sure if you still got a bike but if you dont, get a stock f4i and one with an 954 on it and put it next to eachother and you'll see a diffrence....also take a look at the specs on a f4i and then the 929/954 and you'll see that theres a diffrence in the frontend hight....so by lowwering the frontend on it makes it easier to bring up and higher, longer, just a better all around better set up....

im goin got have to take a look when i go ou to the spot :YEAH

[CRAZY DAN]

Originally Posted by Joe Brown

were talking long stoppies here dan....

600ft on a f4i is long enough for me! im sure with a long smooth practice spot (like you had in florida), 800 ft could be reached!

[eazenutz33]

Originally Posted by CRAZY DAN

600ft on a f4i is long enough for me! im sure with a long smooth practice spot (like you had in florida), 800 ft could be reached!

how long you want?

[NME]

Originally Posted by ExtremeAcres

Here is my I've been interested in forks since the late eighties....I was roadracing and studied my forks a bit........ and What I found wayyyy back then , is sounding exactly like what alot are saying now.....
Back in the day....On a hurricane 600 (conventional forks) with race springs and heavier oil...blah blah.... Well , I used to look down at my forktubes (through the body...looking straight down them) while i was braking from about 140 to 70 or so....hard.... Those tubes were flexing....oh about an inch backwards as I recall, at the axel !!! I was like "holy shit " for awhile , but got used to it.... Then the 93 900RR's came out (my avatar) and I got one... with inverteds.... same test , same track, (but maybe from 150 to 70 ...they only flexed back about 3/8' of an inch....substantially different...better....firmer...blah blah ....

The flex in conventionals fork tubes travels beyond the lower tripple tree(higher than it....and can cause the slightest bow in between the triple trees even....) this is what i was told by some gurus back in the day.
inverteds dont do this cause they have the big fat body mounted in the tripples.
I think that a set of Billet tripples with like 3 pinch bolts top and bottom for an F4i...Covering like 1-1/2 inches of fork tube at the top and at the lower trip tree) , could reduce alot of that flex, and have some improvement for a stock fork setup.... I've seen tripple trees like that for other apps.

One other point that im not sure if it was mentioned yet.... Inverteds have less "unsprung weight" ( less weight below the spring)... this is a major factor in all types of suspension , bikes , cars etc. across the board....Less unsprung weight = better soaking up of bumps..... I think this is one reason everyone is saying the inverteds dont pogo and feel more secure....they are "working better doing what they are supposed to be doing"

I'm doing weak little stoppies on my f4i and I'm already feeling pogo-ing....albeit slight.... and I wont feel the need to switch for awhile....but I could see upgrading in a year or so....If I've been a good boy, and practiced , and improved enough to where I think i earned them and I know i'll be able to make the best of them. just my

BTW.... next time you have a wide open area and opportunity..... Do some hard braking from100 or better down to 50 or less....all while looking down past your tripples at the bottom of your forks....and look at the Flex !!! guys with conventionals will see more than inverts.... later

Didn't those hurricanes have the "anti-handling valve" attached to one caliper so when you applied the brakes, the forks wouldn't dive?

And my front end must flex pretty bad,too. That's what everone at the spot says anyway. And i rebuild them often: seals, oil and the ever neglected bushings which help keep the flex to a minimum and also keep from "stretching" fork seals.

But i have a 929 with a 929 front end.

[mikkee]

Grab some brake roll, repeat, then roll farther. Any bike, any fork, master, whatever..

Enough Already!!!










Ok I'm done... post on!

[Matt Gorka]

Originally Posted by ExtremeAcres

Here is my I've been interested in forks since the late eighties....I was roadracing and studied my forks a bit........ and What I found wayyyy back then , is sounding exactly like what alot are saying now.....
Back in the day....On a hurricane 600 (conventional forks) with race springs and heavier oil...blah blah.... Well , I used to look down at my forktubes (through the body...looking straight down them) while i was braking from about 140 to 70 or so....hard.... Those tubes were flexing....oh about an inch backwards as I recall, at the axel !!! I was like "holy shit " for awhile , but got used to it.... Then the 93 900RR's came out (my avatar) and I got one... with inverteds.... same test , same track, (but maybe from 150 to 70 ...they only flexed back about 3/8' of an inch....substantially different...better....firmer...blah blah ....

The flex in conventionals fork tubes travels beyond the lower tripple tree(higher than it....and can cause the slightest bow in between the triple trees even....) this is what i was told by some gurus back in the day.
inverteds dont do this cause they have the big fat body mounted in the tripples.
I think that a set of Billet tripples with like 3 pinch bolts top and bottom for an F4i...Covering like 1-1/2 inches of fork tube at the top and at the lower trip tree) , could reduce alot of that flex, and have some improvement for a stock fork setup.... I've seen tripple trees like that for other apps.

One other point that im not sure if it was mentioned yet.... Inverteds have less "unsprung weight" ( less weight below the spring)... this is a major factor in all types of suspension , bikes , cars etc. across the board....Less unsprung weight = better soaking up of bumps..... I think this is one reason everyone is saying the inverteds dont pogo and feel more secure....they are "working better doing what they are supposed to be doing"

I'm doing weak little stoppies on my f4i and I'm already feeling pogo-ing....albeit slight.... and I wont feel the need to switch for awhile....but I could see upgrading in a year or so....If I've been a good boy, and practiced , and improved enough to where I think i earned them and I know i'll be able to make the best of them. just my

BTW.... next time you have a wide open area and opportunity..... Do some hard braking from100 or better down to 50 or less....all while looking down past your tripples at the bottom of your forks....and look at the Flex !!! guys with conventionals will see more than inverts.... later

Valuable points to be considered. Good post.