Fork setups...Enough already!!!
08-01-2006, 11:26 AM
#21
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Re: Fork setups...Enough already!!!
There are so many variables that goes into this it would be hard to say one thing is consistently better or not. To really find out, someone would have to swap the individual parts, measure, calculate spring and preload difference, handlebar set up etc. Im assuming dampners are being used? do they react better with a differnt set up...again just too many variables to pinpoint a direct cause and effect. 
08-01-2006, 11:50 AM
#22
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Re: Fork setups...Enough already!!!
Originally Posted by TheProdigy
im rolling 300+ ft on a stock f4i front end ive talked to tim barnes about helping me with the springs\revalving and heavier fork oil treatment ive been experiementing with the compression latly right now its bone stock with everything set as stiff as it will go
PROPS to this guy. Look how hight that **** is. Sick pick.
i switched out the f4i forks as well. My problem is that i started learning endos on a 02 gsxr 600... the forks are not inverted... Comfortable riding the endos and felt fine.. Switched to the f4i... felt soooo different... i dunno if it was just me or what... but now the 954 front end is on it and feels way way wayyyy better.... im deff no endo master but thats my
08-01-2006, 12:09 PM
#23
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Re: Fork setups...Enough already!!!
I would love to see 2 bikes, side by side. One with 954 setup, one with a stock front end and take measurements and duplicate it on the stock setup...
Same spring rates. Same rake/trail. Same fork length. I think this is a job for Race Tech. This needs to be settled once and for all. Swapping out the front end doesn't affect the weight balance of the bike. The motor is still in the same place, etc. It's all to do with the goemetry of the front end that enables it to hook up better, and the spring rates give it the sturdy feel. There is nothing so far that leads me to believe that it can't be replicated with the stockers.
Same spring rates. Same rake/trail. Same fork length. I think this is a job for Race Tech. This needs to be settled once and for all. Swapping out the front end doesn't affect the weight balance of the bike. The motor is still in the same place, etc. It's all to do with the goemetry of the front end that enables it to hook up better, and the spring rates give it the sturdy feel. There is nothing so far that leads me to believe that it can't be replicated with the stockers.
08-01-2006, 12:16 PM
#24
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Re: Fork setups...Enough already!!!
Originally Posted by SIC Nate
Regular vs. inverted...the "advantage" to inverted fork set up is that the exposed tube area is much shorter in the inverted setup so you get less flex from the tube. If you are in an endo and the stock tubes are flexed, I dont think it would change much during the endo (unless you are pogo-ing or are giving alot of ubrupt brake input) I suppose the flex could make it more likely to lean requiring more body input to roll straight? maybe
I dont own or ride an f4i, but I would imagine that the 929/954 feels better than the stock set up on the f4i because it is set up for the heavier 1000 class bike, therefore making the factory set up stiffer when put on the f4i.
Also, (not knowing for sure) I would think that the 1000 class forks would have more distance from the lower tripple to the axle..changing the geometry
And finally, the 929/954 clip ons are wider than f4i, which would give you a better feel.
I think the stock forks would work well if re-springed and re-valved.
I dont own or ride an f4i, but I would imagine that the 929/954 feels better than the stock set up on the f4i because it is set up for the heavier 1000 class bike, therefore making the factory set up stiffer when put on the f4i.
Also, (not knowing for sure) I would think that the 1000 class forks would have more distance from the lower tripple to the axle..changing the geometry
And finally, the 929/954 clip ons are wider than f4i, which would give you a better feel.
I think the stock forks would work well if re-springed and re-valved.
Right, but when you're in a stoppie, almost all your stanction tube is compressed in the fork. There is not much fork tube exposed to enable that kind of flex that you would feel. It's at the bottom of the travel, not the top. Plus, if it flexed that much, it would kill the seals and you'd definitely know it.
As far as your comment about the distance to the lower triple to the axle, this is exactly what I'm talking about. These measurements need to be made so we can see what the differences are. I don't have the bikes available, but if someone does, we could come to a conclusion rather quickly and save a lot of people 300 bucks for a front end.
08-01-2006, 12:38 PM
#25
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Re: Fork setups...Enough already!!!
Originally Posted by Matt Gorka
I would love to see 2 bikes, side by side. One with 954 setup, one with a stock front end and take measurements and duplicate it on the stock setup...
Same spring rates. Same rake/trail. Same fork length. I think this is a job for Race Tech. This needs to be settled once and for all. Swapping out the front end doesn't affect the weight balance of the bike. The motor is still in the same place, etc. It's all to do with the goemetry of the front end that enables it to hook up better, and the spring rates give it the sturdy feel. There is nothing so far that leads me to believe that it can't be replicated with the stockers.
Same spring rates. Same rake/trail. Same fork length. I think this is a job for Race Tech. This needs to be settled once and for all. Swapping out the front end doesn't affect the weight balance of the bike. The motor is still in the same place, etc. It's all to do with the goemetry of the front end that enables it to hook up better, and the spring rates give it the sturdy feel. There is nothing so far that leads me to believe that it can't be replicated with the stockers.
1. the STOCK adjustments you can make to an F4i frontend WILL NOT yeild the same results as a 929/954 setup. you'd need to open the forks up, put new oil,springs,etc.etc.etc.etc. to make it as stiff as the 954 front end. 90% of poeple put on a 929/954 front end, because it would take ALOT of work to make a F4i the same as a 954.
2. you can make any fork just like any other fork. you can take the forks off my XR100, and make them just as stiff, with the same bound and rebound, as a 954 front end. the idea is pracitcally tho.
3. it's ALOT easier to take off your current front end, and bolt on a 929/954 front end, than to send your forks off to bee modified (could take weeks if you take into account shipping), or do the modifications your (alot more work than just taking off the current front end and putting a new one on).
08-01-2006, 12:38 PM
#26
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Re: Fork setups...Enough already!!!
most people dont measure the lenth of the stock fork setup before they do the swap either so when they try the 929\54 setup ofcourse they will feel difference but i think its all in your head
08-01-2006, 01:04 PM
#27
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Re: Fork setups...Enough already!!!
lets take a look at what the ENDO kings of nowadays are riding...
Bill D - Yamaha R1
Jason Britton - Gixxer 600
Those 2 are consistent top 3 finishers in almost any Endo comp. How do their forks differ from the 929/954 setup and the f4i setup?
Bill D - Yamaha R1
Jason Britton - Gixxer 600
Those 2 are consistent top 3 finishers in almost any Endo comp. How do their forks differ from the 929/954 setup and the f4i setup?
08-01-2006, 01:32 PM
#28
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Re: Fork setups...Enough already!!!
Originally Posted by Matt Gorka
Swapping out the front end doesn't affect the weight balance of the bike. The motor is still in the same place, etc. It's all to do with the goemetry of the front end that enables it to hook up better,
thats about the most assinine statement ive ever seen u make matt
the front end dosent effect the weight balance? bwahah r u serious
not only does the 954 lighten the front
it changes rider postion
and thus, the balacne of weight and centar of gravity
there is no way u can change the geometry on something like that and not have it effect the weight distrabution
Last edited by -Nasty-; 08-01-2006 at 01:49 PM.
08-01-2006, 01:39 PM
#29
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Re: Fork setups...Enough already!!!
Originally Posted by -Nasty-
Originally Posted by Matt Gorka
Swapping out the front end doesn't affect the weight balance of the bike. The motor is still in the same place, etc. It's all to do with the goemetry of the front end that enables it to hook up better,
thats about the most assinine statement ive ever seen u make matt
the front end dosent effect the weight balance? bwahah r u serious
not only does the 954 lighten the front
it changes rider postion
and thus, the balacne of weight and centar of gravity
there is no way u can change the geometry on something like that and not have it effect the weight distrabution
the lower the front of the ibke, the more weight there is on the front tire, and thus the harder it is to lock-up.
smae with lower clips-ons, the more weight you put over the front, the less likely to lock-up.
08-01-2006, 01:53 PM
#30
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Re: Fork setups...Enough already!!!
This may be 
The stock master cylinder for the F4i is not the best. Alex Flores was running a stock F4i front end with 929 master. He was rolling some decent stoppies nothing special and recently conveted to a 929 front end...
If you upgrade the stock F4i master and the calipers, with ss lines, you might be money!!!!
The stock master cylinder for the F4i is not the best. Alex Flores was running a stock F4i front end with 929 master. He was rolling some decent stoppies nothing special and recently conveted to a 929 front end...
If you upgrade the stock F4i master and the calipers, with ss lines, you might be money!!!!
08-01-2006, 02:19 PM
#31
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Re: Fork setups...Enough already!!! On my F4i that I am riding right now I can roll just over 320'. That is
with a stock master,race pads and stock springs but the forks have been re-built with
heavier fluid and the settings are set to my likeing. The problem that I
have with them is them bottoming out all the time. I don't have the problem
with them pogoing at critical points but on 180's it will give a pretty
good backwards launch. Yesterday I put a 929 front end on my F4i only
because it way laying in the garage and I was curious to see what it was
like. I thought it was GARBAGE! It was as solid as a rock on the softest
setting and the rake and trail just didn't seem right for the bike. The idea that I had for a great suspension setup how ever would be to use some Hyper-pro springs and heavier weight fluid.
The one thing that I though about is that on a
conventional fork is that when you hit a bump the bike will travel up and
down but On an inverted suspension setup when you hit over a bump or run over crack the wheel will move up and down within the fork tubes instead.
One thing that I thought about to is that one reason a person might switch to a 92/954 front end is braking power. I found that if you run a race pad or a high performance brake pad on a F4i front end it picks up just as well.
My conclusion on putting different forks on an F4i is that it is not
needed ( Look at Dan Jackson). If a person re builds a set of stock
F4i forks and puts some high performance pads in the front it should feel some what comparable to a 92/954 front end. It will save you some bucks.
-Aaron
with a stock master,race pads and stock springs but the forks have been re-built with
heavier fluid and the settings are set to my likeing. The problem that I
have with them is them bottoming out all the time. I don't have the problem
with them pogoing at critical points but on 180's it will give a pretty
good backwards launch. Yesterday I put a 929 front end on my F4i only
because it way laying in the garage and I was curious to see what it was
like. I thought it was GARBAGE! It was as solid as a rock on the softest
setting and the rake and trail just didn't seem right for the bike. The idea that I had for a great suspension setup how ever would be to use some Hyper-pro springs and heavier weight fluid.
The one thing that I though about is that on a
conventional fork is that when you hit a bump the bike will travel up and
down but On an inverted suspension setup when you hit over a bump or run over crack the wheel will move up and down within the fork tubes instead.
One thing that I thought about to is that one reason a person might switch to a 92/954 front end is braking power. I found that if you run a race pad or a high performance brake pad on a F4i front end it picks up just as well.
My conclusion on putting different forks on an F4i is that it is not
needed ( Look at Dan Jackson). If a person re builds a set of stock
F4i forks and puts some high performance pads in the front it should feel some what comparable to a 92/954 front end. It will save you some bucks.
-Aaron
08-01-2006, 02:55 PM
#33
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Re: Fork setups...Enough already!!!
if YOU **** at stoppies your gonna **** on an f4i stock or with better front end etc etc..if you really want to learn stoppies learn on what you have..then upgrade if you think you really need to..
08-01-2006, 03:02 PM
#34
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Re: Fork setups...Enough already!!!
Originally Posted by Aaron Colton
On my F4i that I am riding right now I can roll just over 320'. That is
with a stock master,race pads and stock springs but the forks have been re-built with
heavier fluid and the settings are set to my likeing. The problem that I
have with them is them bottoming out all the time. I don't have the problem
with them pogoing at critical points but on 180's it will give a pretty
good backwards launch. Yesterday I put a 929 front end on my F4i only
because it way laying in the garage and I was curious to see what it was
like. I thought it was GARBAGE! It was as solid as a rock on the softest
setting and the rake and trail just didn't seem right for the bike. The idea that I had for a great suspension setup how ever would be to use some Hyper-pro springs and heavier weight fluid.
The one thing that I though about is that on a
conventional fork is that when you hit a bump the bike will travel up and
down but On an inverted suspension setup when you hit over a bump or run over crack the wheel will move up and down within the fork tubes instead.
One thing that I thought about to is that one reason a person might switch to a 92/954 front end is braking power. I found that if you run a race pad or a high performance brake pad on a F4i front end it picks up just as well.
My conclusion on putting different forks on an F4i is that it is not
needed ( Look at Dan Jackson). If a person re builds a set of stock
F4i forks and puts some high performance pads in the front it should feel some what comparable to a 92/954 front end. It will save you some bucks.
-Aaron
with a stock master,race pads and stock springs but the forks have been re-built with
heavier fluid and the settings are set to my likeing. The problem that I
have with them is them bottoming out all the time. I don't have the problem
with them pogoing at critical points but on 180's it will give a pretty
good backwards launch. Yesterday I put a 929 front end on my F4i only
because it way laying in the garage and I was curious to see what it was
like. I thought it was GARBAGE! It was as solid as a rock on the softest
setting and the rake and trail just didn't seem right for the bike. The idea that I had for a great suspension setup how ever would be to use some Hyper-pro springs and heavier weight fluid.
The one thing that I though about is that on a
conventional fork is that when you hit a bump the bike will travel up and
down but On an inverted suspension setup when you hit over a bump or run over crack the wheel will move up and down within the fork tubes instead.
One thing that I thought about to is that one reason a person might switch to a 92/954 front end is braking power. I found that if you run a race pad or a high performance brake pad on a F4i front end it picks up just as well.
My conclusion on putting different forks on an F4i is that it is not
needed ( Look at Dan Jackson). If a person re builds a set of stock
F4i forks and puts some high performance pads in the front it should feel some what comparable to a 92/954 front end. It will save you some bucks.
-Aaron
I have been running Hyper-pro springs, and heavier fork oil for just under two years now, and love it...............
I am also running a stock master, stock lines, and stock pads......
from 150 approach, my best was around 275, and from 300 approach, I am rolling around 400..... not the best in the world, but not bad.... for a F4i.... right..........?
08-01-2006, 03:09 PM
#35
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Re: Fork setups...Enough already!!!
Originally Posted by Aaron Colton
On my F4i that I am riding right now I can roll just over 320'. That is
with a stock master,race pads and stock springs but the forks have been re-built with
heavier fluid and the settings are set to my likeing. The problem that I
have with them is them bottoming out all the time. I don't have the problem
with them pogoing at critical points but on 180's it will give a pretty
good backwards launch. Yesterday I put a 929 front end on my F4i only
because it way laying in the garage and I was curious to see what it was
like. I thought it was GARBAGE! It was as solid as a rock on the softest
setting and the rake and trail just didn't seem right for the bike. The idea that I had for a great suspension setup how ever would be to use some Hyper-pro springs and heavier weight fluid.
The one thing that I though about is that on a
conventional fork is that when you hit a bump the bike will travel up and
down but On an inverted suspension setup when you hit over a bump or run over crack the wheel will move up and down within the fork tubes instead.
One thing that I thought about to is that one reason a person might switch to a 92/954 front end is braking power. I found that if you run a race pad or a high performance brake pad on a F4i front end it picks up just as well.
My conclusion on putting different forks on an F4i is that it is not
needed ( Look at Dan Jackson). If a person re builds a set of stock
F4i forks and puts some high performance pads in the front it should feel some what comparable to a 92/954 front end. It will save you some bucks.
-Aaron
with a stock master,race pads and stock springs but the forks have been re-built with
heavier fluid and the settings are set to my likeing. The problem that I
have with them is them bottoming out all the time. I don't have the problem
with them pogoing at critical points but on 180's it will give a pretty
good backwards launch. Yesterday I put a 929 front end on my F4i only
because it way laying in the garage and I was curious to see what it was
like. I thought it was GARBAGE! It was as solid as a rock on the softest
setting and the rake and trail just didn't seem right for the bike. The idea that I had for a great suspension setup how ever would be to use some Hyper-pro springs and heavier weight fluid.
The one thing that I though about is that on a
conventional fork is that when you hit a bump the bike will travel up and
down but On an inverted suspension setup when you hit over a bump or run over crack the wheel will move up and down within the fork tubes instead.
One thing that I thought about to is that one reason a person might switch to a 92/954 front end is braking power. I found that if you run a race pad or a high performance brake pad on a F4i front end it picks up just as well.
My conclusion on putting different forks on an F4i is that it is not
needed ( Look at Dan Jackson). If a person re builds a set of stock
F4i forks and puts some high performance pads in the front it should feel some what comparable to a 92/954 front end. It will save you some bucks.
-Aaron
If you go with fork springs I would get Race Tech, Traxxion Dynamics, or another constant rate fork spring versus a variable rate fork spring like the stockers or Hyperpros. Also make sure that they are the correct springs for your combined weight with the bike. I have 1.0 rate Traxxion Dynamics fork springs and most people who ride my 03 600RR with standard forks say it feels like 929/954 front ends on their F4i's.
I think the biggest differences are gonna be the fork length when mounted in the triples, stiffness of the stock springs, and the weight of the rider!
As I lenghtened my forks they got better! (Thanks Matt:YEAH ) And I think Jowalski told me his 954 front end was longer than his F4i front end when they layed side by side on the ground. So if you mount your triples and clip-ons the same place on the top of the fork, your clip-ons are gonna be higher off the ground! Giving you the same effect that I got when I lowered my forks down into the triples.
Also, the triples are wider to allow for the larger diameter of the fork tubes, making your grip stance wider, just like getting wider clip-ons or using a set of really low dirtbike bars!
I think if you lowered your forks in the triple, ran heavier valving and springs matched to your weight, and ran wide clip-ons or dirtbike bars.......you probably wouldn't notice much of a difference!
08-01-2006, 03:18 PM
#36
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Re: Fork setups...Enough already!!!
Originally Posted by Scott@STUNTERS
I agree with Aaron on this one...... I also hate the 929/954 front ends on the f4i........... does not feel right at all to me............
I have been running Hyper-pro springs, and heavier fork oil for just under two years now, and love it...............
I am also running a stock master, stock lines, and stock pads......
from 150 approach, my best was around 275, and from 300 approach, I am rolling around 400..... not the best in the world, but not bad.... for a F4i.... right..........?
I have been running Hyper-pro springs, and heavier fork oil for just under two years now, and love it...............
I am also running a stock master, stock lines, and stock pads......
from 150 approach, my best was around 275, and from 300 approach, I am rolling around 400..... not the best in the world, but not bad.... for a F4i.... right..........?
For it to even look right you should stunt nothing smaller than a Busa or ZX12/14................and thats just so that you look proprtional on the bike!
I thought you were riding a 50 at first, but found out that was an F4i crammed under your ***!
08-01-2006, 03:25 PM
#37
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kansas
Posts: 687
Re: Fork setups...Enough already!!!
Originally Posted by -Nasty-
thats about the most assinine statement ive ever seen u make matt
the front end dosent effect the weight balance? bwahah r u serious
not only does the 954 lighten the front
it changes rider postion
and thus, the balacne of weight and centar of gravity
there is no way u can change the geometry on something like that and not have it effect the weight distrabution
the front end dosent effect the weight balance? bwahah r u serious
not only does the 954 lighten the front
it changes rider postion
and thus, the balacne of weight and centar of gravity
there is no way u can change the geometry on something like that and not have it effect the weight distrabution
What I meant was the weight distribution doesn't change about the bike.....i.e. where you sit, high, low, motor placement and all that jazz....but yeah, you got a point. I was keyboard free-stylin' poppin' off at the rev-limiter.
08-01-2006, 03:27 PM
#39
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Re: Fork setups...Enough already!!!
Joe, your assignment is to get some springs done up in a f4i and mess with the forks to see what works since you're probably the ideal candidate for this test.
08-01-2006, 03:28 PM
#40
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Re: Fork setups...Enough already!!!
Originally Posted by Matt Gorka
Joe, your assignment is to get some springs done up in a f4i and mess with the forks to see what works since you're probably the ideal candidate for this test.
