3824

1/8th of an inch. You can see it work. Before you put the hub back on pull the lever and you should be able to see the top pad engaging slightly before the bottom.

KeZZ'z Xr100R

would this work for honda Xr100R year 2002?

fox12345123456

would this work with a 2004 klx110

homersparents

I have a question

Since the wheels are round: and turn around and the drum is round and pressure at any point in that circle would have the same braking effect.

Why is it important for the top shoe to touch first?

If you think of it like a circle there is no beginning and no end so top and bottom mean nothing, so long as the material the shoe is made from is not directionally more biased in the effectiveness in one direction over the other. It makes no difference which one hits first.
Stopping power and stopping efficiency will not be based on which hits first. Bottom or top makes no difference...

Just to help you understand
Turn the whole bike upside down in your mind. And then see if the NEW top is touching first.

Brake shoes or pad are not directionally biased: in other words they do not care what direction they are opposing. I see what you are saying that when the pad on the bottom does the stopping it must not be as good of stopping the wheel because it doesn’t seem to be directly opposing the direction of the bike.

This is a mistake in logic. The wheel moves in a circle not straightforward. So it makes no difference which pad or shoe touches the braking surface first the stopping efficiency and power will be the same. Your logic would seem to detach the top of the wheel from the bottom of the wheel.
The bottom shoe or pad, by stopping the bottom part of the wheel also stops the top part of the wheel just as much. The wheel is a solid circle cant separate the forces and say one brake pad or shoe is opposing more because its on top or less because its on bottom.

The bottom shoe, if it is made of the same material, will do just as good of a job stopping you as one on the top assuming they both have same pressure applied to them. If the brake pads or shoes where not top and bottom but side by side which one would you designate as the one that opposes more. You couldn’t say one was opposing more than the other.

Any improvement seen in this modification is purely imagined.

If I misunderstood the intent of this modification then please forgive me and explain the intent of this mod more clearly.

Thank you

Crazy D

I have thought about this too .

But i do know that it works .

Fabfivefiddy is probably one of the smartest 50's nut there is .

I don't know why you want the Top shoe to hit first ...... but i see it like this ;

If you have one shoe hitting first , the other shoe won't have as much force on the drum . If you grind the part of the shoe down , the shoes should hit the drum at the same time and the combined force of the two shoes will apply more evenly creating better stopping power .

Now Fab says you want the Top shoe to hit first and this is where i don't understand .

But i repeat , it does work somehow . Many people do the front brakes too.

If Fab comes in here , he will reply . (I think )



BTW , homersparents , can you please stop posting your text with different colors . That dark grey **** was hard to read

blacklincoln

it works because the top shoe will wedge itself between the shoe pivot and drum and wont apply resistance force against the cam when you apply the brakes..
the bottom shoe will more or less drag against the drum and apply force against the cam (and your lever) since the rotation naturally pushes the shoe into it..

these shoes can apply force independently (unlike car drum brakes) since they each have their own separate pivot and because the cam is stationary..both shoes do not have to make contact for braking action to occur..

now i just need to take my *** to the garage and fix my piece..

*Tanus*

that $hit works good ,but wares the pads out real fast. I just leave it factory now

Crazy D

I think i understand now :YEAH



The shoe pivot points are in the front . The cam is at the rear .



You want the top shoe to hit first because the drum will try to grab the top shoe

and force it upward because of the forward rotation and the friction .




If the bottom shoe hits first , there will be opposite force against the bottom shoe because of the wheel rotation

and it would require more pressure on the brake lever to compensate for this .

GundamnitPete

it's because the wheel is SPINNING. when the bottom pad hits first, it drags against the drum, where as when the top pad hits, it wedges itself in, much like putting a stick in a moving bicycles spokes.




try the mod before you judge it

homersparents

try the mod before you judge it [/quote]

I am not judging I am examining. Sorry if I made it sound like i was trying to be a jerk. i was not judging but making an examination...

force of FRICTION is equal to the NORMAL force applied, multiplied by the coefficient of friction. Surface area of the Shoe or shoes is not in question when considering breaking power. More shoes does not equal more braking power. the force applied is split amongst the two shoes. Say you push 3 pounds of pressure to the brake lever you get 1.5lbs pounds per shoe. The 1.5 pounds is then multiplied by the coefficient of friction for the two surfaces... that is where I couldn’t understand why this was supposedly working for you guys with raw math it doesn’t work out..

The idea that the brake shoe wedges itself in more is an interesting explanation of the phenomenon you guys are experiencing.

The reason I thing HONDA makes the bottom SHOE hit first is probably to prevent locking up the brakes. The idea of you guys grinding part of your brake off so that you can cause the brakes to “wedge in” is absurd when that is most likely the reason Honda designed them to not hit at the same time… that is IF grinding can cause the top SHOE to wedge in.

So the issue here is not as described. It is not the brakes hitting at the same time but actually causing the brake system to “ wedge in” the TOP brake shoe causing more NORMAL FORCE to be applied to the two frictional surfaces. Where in the force of braking is equal to the force applied to the shoe multiplied by the coefficient of friction for the two surfaces.

Basically you are saying that causing a brake to malfunction and “wedge in” causes the brake shoe to press with foot pressure PLUSS whatever “wedging in pressure is accrued…hmmm interesting

I really would advise extreme caution when you attempt to cause something that has been engineered to prevent what you are attempting… that “wedging in” effect was most likely the reason HONDA has engineered the top SHOE to hit last. That way it wont get wedge in and lock up. WORST CASE SENARIO in mind!!!

Its best to use you brain to examine things before you try them.

BEWARE OF PSUDO ENGINEARING. IT CAN BE DANGEROUSE.

That entire aside I would love to hear if someone does know of another way to improve break function.

GundamnitPete

your an idiot.

JonnY X

Crazy D

First , i'm gonna say this again . STOP POSTING YOUR TEXT IN A DIFFERENT COLOR OTHER THAN WHITE . THERE IS NO REASON FOR IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Back on subject :

I don't believe you started your 1st post by "being a jerk" .

But now you are .

Do you think Fabfivefiddy didn't try this before he told people ? He has way more Fiddy knowledge than all of us combined .

You keep using big words and trying to sound smart . If you are going to use big words , you better start spelling correctly .

You talk about the shoes hitting at the same time . I was the only one that brought this up . This was an idea i had of how it worked . I did not say that this is how it worked . It was a suggestion .

I think if you have two shoes and they hit together and are applied evenly , you will definately have more stopping power than one shoe doing more of the work . The reason is because the force will be applied evenly to more area on the drum .

But this is NOT what we are trying to achieve this in this brake mod. .

What we are trying to do is make the rear brake have greater stopping power . And to do this we are making a "MODIFICATION" .

Like any modification to anything , a car , a boat , a stereo system , a bicycle , a toilet , anything . We are trying to make it perform in a way that it will be better from the factory FOR OUR OWN PURPOSE . Put a blower or a n.o.s. system on your car . Will it make it faster ? Hell yeah . Is it good for the engine and your warrantee ? Hell no . But you do it for a reason .

There is a reason why you want your rear brake to have more stopping force .... Try doing a Top gear , full speed , High Chair coaster on 108cc fiddy with a stock brake set-up . If you think it would be better and safer doing it with a stock brake setup from Honda , go ahead . I wish you luck .

If you read a couple of posts above , someone stated that it might wear out the top shoe because of the extra friction .
Who gives a rats *** . You are making this mod. for a reason . For better stopping power .

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is always gone be someone doing your so called "PSUDO ENGINEARING . IT CAN BE DANGEROUSE"

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
BY THE WAY , CHECK YOUR SPELLING BEFORE YOU SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT .

I believe the website is called Stuntlife . Just to let you know , most people here don't stunt a stock bike . If you want me to name about 10 mods. that people do to their bikes to make them handle and stunt better that are not really good for the stock bike , i will .

You want to know how to make your Brakes better ? Buy a bike with disc brakes .

BY THE WAY , IT'S SPELLED BRAKES , NOT BREAKS .


Ride safe , wear a helmet

homersparents

WOW YOU GOT ME ON SPELLING I AM IMPRESSED. BECOUSE SPELLING IS THE HALMARK OF INTELIGENT THAUGHT.

TWO SHOES THREE SHOES TEN SHOES……………..DON’T TELL ANYONE BUT SERFACE AREA OF BRAKE SHOE WILL NOT INCREASE BRAKING POWER.

IT WONT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IF YOU HAVE MORE SHOES OR LES SHOES OR ONE SHOE THAT IS HALF SIZE. …When talking about braking power.

IT MAKES NO DIFFERANCE HOW MUCH SERFACE AREA YOUR BRAKE SHOE HAS
Ff = N*μf
Force of friction is equal to the normal force times the coefficient of friction
In other words the force brakes make is equal to the friction force which is equal to force applied to the brake shoes times the known value for the brake shoe against the brake drum.

None of that formula says anything about surface area or number of shoes or whatever. It does however; mention Normal force. By wedging the shoe you are creating extra normal force on the brake. Sure I got that. It works to stop you. It conceivably could lock up your brakes really good… more power to you

That aside I am not saying now that it doesn’t work. I am saying that by grinding part of the bottom brake shoe off your bringing flaws back into the brake system that where engineered out years ago. The reason the brake system is designed the way it is is to prevent the kind of WEDGING IN of the shoe that this mod causes.

I am just saying back yard engineering can be fun and dangerous. a mod of this nature before it is done should be researched and tested so someone isn’t paralyzed. I would hate to have invented a mod that broke someone’s neck.

Moding brakes in this way reintroduces a problem that wedging the top shoe could cause a huge lockup and a fall. That’s all I am saying …at first I wasn’t sure this mod could even work. Now I see that it works but not for the reason originally posted. It is the wedging of the shoe that increases pressure exerted on a portion of the shoe. That additional force, and not the fact that more shoes are touching, or that those shoes are timed together, that causes a increase in stopping power.

Stunts are great but so are brakes. They are probably the most important system on a bike period.

Think about it

Ff = N*μf

blacklincoln

damn this is like some fkn physics science fair..
look dude this mod is for fiftys not a passenger plane..if the front wheel locks you jump over the bars like you just did on the other hundred or so stoppie attempts earlier and drag it into your garage for a fix..

the purpose of this mod is to give the brakes more grab which is a good thing when you have a half *** tangled mess of linkage comming from your homemade handbrake...or when youre trying to pull a stoppie with a 200lb dude on a bike that is rated for a 7 year old 80 pounder..

Honda would never do the mod because their design is for smoothness and durability...average fifty owners dont want to replace the top shoe every other month..most people who stunt probably wouldnt mind..

btw do you stunt or teach a knitting class cuz you sound like my grandma?..

Crazy D

Ok everybody . You can return all your oversized racing rotors and calipers because according to homersparents they are a waste of time and money .

You can also take your fiddy shoes and cut them down to like 1/10 of the size because it does not matter how big they are .

Of course they might wear down in about 2 brake stops and you have to be the Incredible Hulk to push on the brake lever to stop , but it doesn't matter .

Just make sure you give your self about a mile of stopping distance when you try to roll that 5 foot stoppie .

Will someone please sticky this info.



I'll call Fabfivefiddy up and have him send this brake mod. to NASA so they can government approve it first .

I'll also go to the 20 other fiddy websites this thread has been posted at and try to tell 100,000 fiddy riders to change their brakes back to normal .

It is just simply to dangerous for us to use on our kids bikes that we crash on the daily with or without the brake mod. .

How dare he give us such bad un-informed information . That damn psudo enginear <---- (i spelled that wrong on purpose)





Engine oil lubrication is the most important system on a bike . PERIOD .

3824

Physics is irrelavant in this discussion moron, and dont try and justify it because some of us did go to college and ace those classes.

If you were as intelligent as you tried to infer you would realize that due to the rotation of the cam, which is not cylindrical - there are flat surfaces, actuating the brakes causes the top pad to be pushed out first, its simple it can be seen by pulling the hub out and moving the brake arm.

More importantly than anything we do not care if your worthless opinion is that the mod is dangerous. That is why they are called mods, they work and thats what matters. I have tested the mod for more than a year personally. Do you think the stock master cyclinders on streetbikes were intended to be modded to fit a handbrake? Guess what they work. So you might as well take your failed attempt at an arguement elsewhere so we can get back to attempting to paralyze ourselves.

homersparents

Name-calling is a good way to pronounce your victory in an argument.

Hey guy I have had a change of heart and I understand now that safety was not a top priority for this mod I am sorry for having confused the issue..

By the way everyone, surface area of brake pad is not what stops you ...larger brake pads are not larger because they are stronger they are larger because they dispel more heat and they grind down at a slower rate than smaller plates.

That is all I was trying to say that people sometimes without realizing it say some things that aren’t true but appear to be true.

Force on the plates and quality of the two surfaces is all that matters not surface area. That is all I was saying. When examining stopping power.

This was never meant to **** people of it was simply a examination of a faulty reasoning I had read earlier in this thread...

No I don’t teach knitting. I teach your granny how to love…if we are still doing the name-calling thing

homersparents

Just because one shoe gets there first or last doesn’t mean it applies less force.

GundamnitPete

you are really stupid.